Also a new 1957 Golden Hawk Owner but a 400?? Hope so.

[Mark Klinger]

Curtiss-Wright employee car??

Craig

I don't think so. It was originally sold to : Norm Wechter at Federal Fabricators and Finishers, Inc. of Chicago, IL. It was his company, he used the car to make sales calls.

[Studebaker Wheel]

[BobPalma]

[QUOTE=Scott;933817]

If the hawks had a secret serial number on the frame somewhere I would not worry about fakes. I think it would be apparent if someone had tried to meddle with that. Of course, if Hawks didn't have it, then nevermind.

Yes, those cars would have had a secret serial number stamped on the frame. But as we have documented through the years, those stampings were so light that even a modest amount of surface rust obliterates them.

Further, a nefarious person hoping to score a big hit with a fake car would undoubtedly research where the secret serial number is supposed to be and simply stamp whatever number they wanted there, since the OEM stamping would probably be long gone. BP

[BobPalma]

To augment Dick's Post #32, here is a scanned copy of the Production Order for one of the 41 "regular production" 1957 Golden Hawk 400s, with the Serial Number redacted:



What is important to note, there, are the paint and trim notations. Note the paint as SPECIAL and the trim as TALEA (TAn LEAther). Those flag this car as a 400; the two identifiers discussed in in the last paragraph of Fred's article.

Contrast that with Mark's copy of the P.O. in the Original Post, and Dick Quinn's remarks. The O.P. for this topic shows the paint as a "regular" two-tone of Tiara [Gold] and Arctic [White], and the upholstery code is GOV (GOld Vinyl).

In the final analysis, this might be an example of where a car was later fitted with different upholstery, or it was simply ordered with leather, per Dick's citation, or the upholstery with which it was originally assembled was not what was specified on the Production Order. In any case, Mark's car appears to have a full Golden Hawk 400 interior, regardless of what the Production Order says. BP

[Mark Klinger]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45995[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]45996[/ATTACH]

Richard, I do have copies of all the correspondence that Claude sent to various Studebaker folks such as you, Fred Fox and Nate Altman. He complied a lot of info and that included the P.O. that was posted. I was going to order from the museum but then saw I had one in the paperwork, wasn't aware there are now different ones available. If you could look into that I sure would appreciate it. Knowing nothing, I tend to go with the car being pulled and brought back in to be refitted with the 400 features. It's a mystery to me why the final assembly date is 01/09/57 with the Gold vinyl interior but the car wasn't sold until 4/18/57 and then it had all the 400 features as well as the 400 price. Is there perhaps some missing company paperwork for the retro fit? I'm sending everything off today to Tom Lawlis, we'll see what he says.
Mark

[Mark Klinger]

I'd also like to find out if there are any sales records available from Studebaker Sales Co. of Chicago? That might shed some light on if this car was indeed ordered at the Chicago Auto Show. I'm also trying to identify what department Mr. Sylvester Zell, Jr. worked in at Stude. It's his name that's on the rear seat tag designating those seats as production samples. I found his name with the date of 1948 in the South Bend Studebaker employee records list of blue collar employees. http://www.sbags.org/stude/studeXYZ.txt Thanks for any help any of you can give me in researching this.
Mark

[8E45E]

Re-ordering an actual copy of the Production Order from the museum might clear it up. Earlier transcripted versions only duplicated the typed information, and not any handwritten notes which was usually how such changes to the original order were done.

If there are any handwritten notes on the production order, it could provide the answer if it had some re-work done at the factory.

Craig

[Mark Klinger]

Re-ordering an actual copy of the Production Order from the museum might clear it up. Earlier transcripted versions only duplicated the typed information, and not any handwritten notes which was usually how such changes to the original order were done.

If there are any handwritten notes on the production order, it could provide the answer if it had some re-work done at the factory.

Craig

Thanks Craig. I've just taken care of that, now I just need to be patient!

Mark

[Studebaker Wheel]

In 1957 Zell was employed in the Body Engineering department. As for finding sales records of the Chicago Studebaker Sales Company I believe that is a long shot....very long.

[63t-cab]

Mark, either way this Hawk is a fine example - I really like the look of the wheels/spinners,makes this Hawk look Hot.

I'm a new owner of a 1957 Golden Hawk and new to the forum. Two in the same day, isn't that something! The car is in great shape, has 52,600 documented miles AND it appears to be an early undocumented 400. Haven't seen this particular car discussed here and I'd like to get a thread going on my car- see it it's lineage can finally be established. Sorry this is long but please read on. Not sure how to do the attachments, hope it works!
The s/n is 6102320 body 2254 is too early to be a 400. The prod. order (attached) has a ship date of 12/31/56 s/o #P5 (what does that designate?) Destination is Rockford, ILL. It's the standard prod. order for a Golden Hawk. BUT I also have an original sales order for Studebaker Sales Co. of Chicago dated 4/18/1957 for the same car 6102320 but it also lists many other items like Tan Leather Upholstery, lots of other options and has a sales price of $4700, right in line with what a loaded 400 was going for. And I've read here that the first production 400 was delivered on 4/26/1957.
There exists an extensive hand written history of the car, including letters, interviews conducted and a lot of research. There is also an association with a MR. ZELL of Studebaker Corp. Does anyone know which dept. he worked in at the time? All of this was done in 1997-98 and before the use of the internet for research and this forum. I've attached a couple pages of these for you to review.
Anyone interested in jumping in on this project[ATTACH=CONFIG]45946[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]45947[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]45948[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]45949[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]45950[/ATTACH]
with me? I'm looking for help, am willing to share the research I have and I know this is the place to come.

[Studebaker Wheel]

I checked with Andy Beckman at the museum and he double checked the original and relates that the copy of your production order that you have is accurate as to the data.

[Mark Klinger]

In 1957 Zell was employed in the Body Engineering department. As for finding sales records of the Chicago Studebaker Sales Company I believe that is a long shot....very long.

Thanks for the info on Zell, at least I now know where these seat assemblies were headed. That's kinda what I imagined about the availability of sales records, too bad that could have cleared all this up. I got the info off to Tom Lawlis today, hopefully he'll have a chance to take a look at it and give us a report. Also thanks for checking with the museum on the p.o.

Mark

[Mark Klinger]

I agree with you Joseph, either way I'll have a great car with a special interior. And since it isn't stock the wires won't make much difference to the value. But I still hold out hope for a 400!

[rockne10]

[SN-60]

Still wondering why the serial/body numbers of the 51 known to be authentic GH 400's need to be kept a secret.

I understand the dangers of repo serial/body plates, but would anyone really try to clone a regular GH into a '400' and pass it off as the 'real thing'?