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Also a new 1957 Golden Hawk Owner but a 400?? Hope so.

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  • Also a new 1957 Golden Hawk Owner but a 400?? Hope so.

    I'm a new owner of a 1957 Golden Hawk and new to the forum. Two in the same day, isn't that something! The car is in great shape, has 52,600 documented miles AND it appears to be an early undocumented 400. Haven't seen this particular car discussed here and I'd like to get a thread going on my car- see it it's lineage can finally be established. Sorry this is long but please read on. Not sure how to do the attachments, hope it works!
    The s/n is 6102320 body 2254 is too early to be a 400. The prod. order (attached) has a ship date of 12/31/56 s/o #P5 (what does that designate?) Destination is Rockford, ILL. It's the standard prod. order for a Golden Hawk. BUT I also have an original sales order for Studebaker Sales Co. of Chicago dated 4/18/1957 for the same car 6102320 but it also lists many other items like Tan Leather Upholstery, lots of other options and has a sales price of $4700, right in line with what a loaded 400 was going for. And I've read here that the first production 400 was delivered on 4/26/1957.
    There exists an extensive hand written history of the car, including letters, interviews conducted and a lot of research. There is also an association with a MR. ZELL of Studebaker Corp. Does anyone know which dept. he worked in at the time? All of this was done in 1997-98 and before the use of the internet for research and this forum. I've attached a couple pages of these for you to review.
    Anyone interested in jumping in on this projectClick image for larger version

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    with me? I'm looking for help, am willing to share the research I have and I know this is the place to come.

  • #2
    I want to congratulate you on this find.....Looks like you really do have a very special '57 Golden there!

    Comment


    • #3
      Nice car, and welcome to the forum. Interesting history. Good luck on the sleuthing.
      Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

      Comment


      • #4
        Welcome to the forum and congrats on a very cool car..! It looks like a real sweetheart.

        Bob Palma will chime in soon enough. He has the list of serial numbers of the GH 400's. He'll be able to confirm/deny for sure.

        Comment


        • #5
          Mark and I have corresponded about his interesting car. He incorporated much of our conversation in his original post.

          (Yes, both the misc. dates and the serial number are too early to be either one of the ten pre-production "show car" Golden Hawk 400s, or one of the 41 "production" Golden Hawk 400s. ) BP
          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          Ayn Rand:
          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

          Comment


          • #6
            That's right Bob but I received a lot of info on the car that came from the original owner's son-in-law. He ordered it at the Chicago Auto show in 1957, Jan. 5-13, knew several people in the Studebaker world. He was told by the salesman this was the 1st Leather interior to be sold. Can you explain the earlier delivery date than 4/26/57. Everything is correct with this car for it being a 400, everything. I have a quote from Andy Beckman? at the Stude Museum from 2002, "I have no doubt it was delivered as a 400 from day one. Stude would accommodate certain customers. It may have been post assembly line/taken off the lot. Nothing is for sure at Studebaker."
            I'm not going to let this go just yet.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mark Klinger View Post
              That's right Bob but I received a lot of info on the car that came from the original owner's son-in-law. He ordered it at the Chicago Auto show in 1957, Jan. 5-13, knew several people in the Studebaker world. He was told by the salesman this was the 1st Leather interior to be sold. Can you explain the earlier delivery date than 4/26/57. Everything is correct with this car for it being a 400, everything. I have a quote from Andy Beckman? at the Stude Museum from 2002, "I have no doubt it was delivered as a 400 from day one. Stude would accommodate certain customers. It may have been post assembly line/taken off the lot. Nothing is for sure at Studebaker."
              I'm not going to let this go just yet.
              OK, Mark;

              What we need to do is run all this past our Golden Hawk 400 guru Tom Lawlis. There is no greater Golden Hawk 400 authority in the Studebaker world; he is restoring one that his brother bought in 1960.

              Unfortunately, Tom does not "do" e-mail, so I am going to send you his home mailing address via a PM here on the forum. Would you please send copies of your documents to Tom? He is a super nice guy and will be interested in seeing what you have.

              Again, look for a PM from me in your forum mail box. (Since you are new to the forum, look up top under notifications and click on that to receive your PM.)

              Best. BP
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              Ayn Rand:
              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mark Klinger View Post
                I'm a new owner of a 1957 Golden Hawk and new to the forum. Two in the same day, isn't that something! The car is in great shape, has 52,600 documented miles AND it appears to be an early undocumented 400. Haven't seen this particular car discussed here and I'd like to get a thread going on my car- see it it's lineage can finally be established. Sorry this is long but please read on. Not sure how to do the attachments, hope it works!
                The s/n is 6102320 body 2254 is too early to be a 400. The prod. order (attached) has a ship date of 12/31/56 s/o #P5 (what does that designate?) Destination is Rockford, ILL. It's the standard prod. order for a Golden Hawk. BUT I also have an original sales order for Studebaker Sales Co. of Chicago dated 4/18/1957 for the same car 6102320 but it also lists many other items like Tan Leather Upholstery, lots of other options and has a sales price of $4700, right in line with what a loaded 400 was going for. And I've read here that the first production 400 was delivered on 4/26/1957.
                There exists an extensive hand written history of the car, including letters, interviews conducted and a lot of research. There is also an association with a MR. ZELL of Studebaker Corp. Does anyone know which dept. he worked in at the time? All of this was done in 1997-98 and before the use of the internet for research and this forum. I've attached a couple pages of these for you to review.
                Anyone interested in jumping in on this project with me? I'm looking for help, am willing to share the research I have and I know this is the place to come.
                Somehow it sort of nags at me that the 400s had a white or off-white leather interior, but it's been a long time since I saw one. I had a friend who had a large post card with a 400 on it, but he passed away several years ago and I don't know what happened to his vast collection of literature.
                You have a great and unique car, but Studebaker did put leather seats in cars over the years and with a little influence you could get just about anything on a Studebaker. I had a long-time dealer tell me one time that he could walk in to the office of the President of Studebaker and have a car built to his requirement no matter whether the equipment was listed as available or not.
                Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
                '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

                Comment


                • #9
                  The April 18th, 1957 letter from Studebaker means a lot in this situation.

                  There is a very good chance this vehicle was sitting unsold and management decided to bring it back into the factory for the conversion work....This Golden Hawk could very well be THE 'pre production' Golden Hawk '400' prototype.

                  The only other explanation I can think of is perhaps a customer with cash in hand specified certain changes before buying this particular Hawk........

                  That scenario reminds me of the solid Cambridge Grey '56 Golden Hawk that we've discussed on this forum several times. (custom job..... red leather interior per customer request)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SN-60 View Post
                    This Golden Hawk could very well be THE 'pre production' Golden Hawk '400' prototype.
                    I believe this one may be the 'pre-production' 400 interior car. The most convincing clue is Tag: 'J Husvar' on the production order who was the Trim Engineer. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ghlight=husvar

                    Craig

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sure hope this thread doesn't 'die'......I'm thinking Mark has a special car here!......Hope the 'serial number' comment doesn't dissuade him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nice find indeed.

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                        • #13
                          Don't worry, I'm not about to let this die! Thanks for the info Bob Palma, I'll get that in the mail as soon as possible. I plan on getting some interior shots posted today for everyone to take a look at. The previous owner, Claude Walker did contact several people when he was researching this, not sure sure if Tom was one of them. Thanks for the encouraging words everyone, this is gonna be fun!

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                          • #14
                            I've only seen two "real" 400s. The one in the Stude Museum, and an unrestored one that the late Nollie Hinton owned. (I wish I knew where that car ended up.)

                            What makes a 400 a 400? The leather interior and... What else?

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                            • #15
                              Mark, Isn't that Sandy Martin's car from Windham?

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