Engine: 1951 Land Cruiser Stall Question UPDATED 7/20/16

[61LaRk4dr]

Hello,

I have had some personal things come up that cause me to not follow up on my findings earlier. I did the following:

- Checked for bare wires, loose connections, I just installed new spark plug wires and reproduction stock wiring from Lark Works. I was hoping to find some loose wire or something, but everything checked out.
- Coated the accelerator pump with foot oil as suggested since the carburetor was recently rebuilt.
- Carburetor seems to deliver via the accelerator pump a healthy stream of gas when the foot pedal is pumped.
- Pump still delivers stream even after car has ran up to operating temperature.

The problems I still have now include:

- Car will start up instantly, but will stall for a fraction of a second before picking back up to idle. This happens with the foot completely off the accelerator pedal. Feels like something is delaying but then catches up.
- Car will steadily increase in idle speed during the first few seconds of operation, I will tap on the gas pedal to bring the idle down.
- Once the idle is down, the car tends to shudder and shake a bit (Idle RPM too low?) and tends to feel like it is going to stall out at anytime, but it doesn't.
- If I put my foot on the pedal to give it a little more gas in idle, the car will stall for a fraction of a second before responding to the change in the accelerator pedal (this is the similar issue when the car is first started).

I did notice that the linkage has a spring attached to it via a collar (please see picture), should this be set at a predetermined distance? Could this be causing the lag?



Hello,

This sounds like an issue that has been broached before, but i am not able to find it. I have a 1951 Land Cruiser with the 232 and A/T. When I start the car it idles great, with the car still in park, I will attempt to press down on the accelerator. The moment I press down on the accelerator, the car stalls out. The car will start back up with no problem, but will stall again when the gas pedal is press down. Fuel bowl on the pump seems to appear full at all times. Let me know if there is something else I can provide for assistance.

Thank you

[TWChamp]

Check the accelerator pump in the carb. When you open the throttle you should see a squirt of gas shoot into each barrel of the carb.

[doofus]

Do this with a mirror if engine is running, let engine run till warmed up and try to accelerate it. does sound like a dry accelerator pump and bet it's been sitting a while. if rebuilding carb with a typical kit soak pump leather in neat's foot oil prior to installation. Luck Doofus

[jclary]

Hello,

This sounds like an issue that has been broached before, but i am not able to find it. I have a 1951 Land Cruiser with the 232 and A/T. When I start the car it idles great, with the car still in park, I will attempt to press down on the accelerator. The moment I press down on the accelerator, the car stalls out. The car will start back up with no problem, but will stall again when the gas pedal is press down. Fuel bowl on the pump seems to appear full at all times. Let me know if there is something else I can provide for assistance.

Thank you

Hi Brian, I also have a '51 Land Cruiser. First, before I get too far into your problem, allow me to add a couple of disclaimers to, hopefully, head off any misunderstandings as I bang away at this keyboard. First, as I type this, I am having an "ocular migraine." For me, this does not involve pain, as in a headache, but it does cause visual problems. It is usually a transient problem that comes and goes, but does make seeing what I am typing a little more difficult. The other disclaimer is that, not knowing your mechanical abilities, and experience, it is easy to make comments that could be taken condescending. That is not my intentions in any way.

With that out of the way, let me address your problem by first suggesting that you take a very hard look, and, at least, check or recheck your points setting. These ignition systems are very simple, but there are a few things very critical. If you have a remote starter switch, it would be good to connect it so that you can observe your distributor cam as you bump the engine to get the points on the very high spot on the cam to check the point gap. Next, when you loosen the point clamp screw, only loosen it enough to move the eccentric adjuster screw for your gap setting. If you loosen the points too much, and then set the gap, it often changes when tightening the clamp screw. Going from memory, I believe the gap is .016. If you get that right, then the "dwell" will be right. Another thing to check, regarding points, is their alignment. Make sure that when the points close, that they come together aligned squarely, face to face. (I know, I'm asking for a couple of "round" objects to come together "squarely")
I have had to bend the tabs to align points, and they need to be installed to get that right. Sometimes, these components require the hands of a surgeon.

While you have the distributor cap off, it is a good time to inspect the inside of the cap. Take a good look. You need good lighting, (and preferably not while having an ocular migraine). Look for any thin lines of carbon deposits. (this is know as "carbon tracking") This is a phenomenon of carbon deposits from internal electrical arcing as the distributor operates. A good wipe down with a clean cotton rag might help. This is not unique to Studebaker, but any engine running the older conventional distributor system. Since electrical current will flow to the path of least resistance, I've seen "carbon tracking" (shorting out) in a distributor in two ways. One, is where the engine will not idle, but will keep running if you don't allow it to fall below a certain RPM. The other, is the opposite, where the engine will idle, but stall when accelerated. This same problem can occur with a cracked distributor cap or failed spark plug wire insulation.

The best way I've found to check for these electrical shorts/leaks/diversions...is to crank the engine in full darkness and look for the lightening storm from the distributor to the spark plugs. Often, especially distributor cap cracks, can only be detected with the engine running in darkness. While examining the ignition components, make sure the spark plugs are in good condition and the gap is correct too. The other distributor/ignition related problem, I can think of, is the vacuum advance diaphragm. However, if bad, it usually causes rough acceleration, stumbling, but not so much a complete stall.

One additional item, not covered when I started typing this reply. If your car has a functioning "no-roll" solenoid for the automatic transmission. Could it be possible that it is locking your brakes? For these no roll devices on automatics, there is a switch tied to your carburetor bell crank. That circuit has an "in-line" fuse. You could remove the fuse, and try to put the car in drive to see if it will roll forward then. I suspect that this is a "long shot" for your problem, but this would, at least, rule that out.

Others have already speculated about fuel delivery, so I've tried to avoid repeating that. Check the items above, and get back to us. Thanks for giving me a diversion from the ocular migraine...it's gone now. Good luck chasing down the problem with your engine. It is part of the fun of owning vintage iron.

[61LaRk4dr]

*bump* please read update

[altair]

If the carburetor in the post is the carburetor in question it appears to have a severe leaking problem, either the bowl gasket or the base gasket. There is evidence of excessive fuel debris on the main housing and on the intake manifold, the debris has migrated to the intake manifold hold downs. This is somewhat evident of an excessive high float and it is leaking over the top. Check the float level and check the cover gasket and base gasket. That carburetor and intake manifold should be spotless, something is leaking. David

[61LaRk4dr]

If the carburetor in the post is the carburetor in question it appears to have a severe leaking problem, either the bowl gasket or the base gasket. There is evidence of excessive fuel debris on the main housing and on the intake manifold, the debris has migrated to the intake manifold hold downs. This is somewhat evident of an excessive high float and it is leaking over the top. Check the float level and check the cover gasket and base gasket. That carburetor and intake manifold should be spotless, something is leaking. David

My apologies, I was away from the car at the time and posted an out of date photo. Below are photos of what the engine looks like now. There doesn't appear to be any leaks, I made sure the screws were tighten and gaskets replaced when the engine was overhauled. I am certainly not ruling out that there could have been a misunderstanding of what needed to be adjusted.

[altair]

That looks a lot better and eliminates my theory David

[StudeRich]

If this is a Studebaker Automatic Drive Car the Anti-creep release switch on the Carb. Linkage could be shorted to ground causing the dead engine when Gas is applied.

Sorry if I missed the fix somewhere in all these confusing, way too long 7 Paragraph Posts.

UPDATE: after reading your 1:41 PM update to Post #1, this is highly unlikely, but NOW, after checking the Anti-Creep Circuit, I would check the condition and stroke of the Carb. Accelerator pump.