Engine: Has anyone here put a 4BT CUMMINS in an old Studebaker truck?

[RUMBLON]

just curious. I have always wanted a 4BT powered rig. Im picking up a 50 studebaker 1/2 ton. Trying to decide on a power plant.

RUMBLON

[PackardV8]

Your opinions and results may vary, but just asking, have you driven many 4BT powered 1/2t pickups?

For those who may not know, the 4BT is a 1984-98 Cummins diesel 4-cylinder engine which weighs 782# and makes 105 horsepower. The one I drove, in an older International, ran as noisy and rough as if a paint shaker with a can full of rocks was under the hood, had no power and had to be plugged in to start if the weather was cold. I couldn't run away from it fast enough and wouldn't have taken it as a gift.

Im picking up a 50 studebaker 1/2 ton

Having disparaged the 4BT as a swap candidate for a '51 short box, I recalled overhearing a female attendee at the Colorado Springs IM making a flight reservation home. "I don't care what it costs, I'm not riding across country in that old truck again in this lifetime." So, old trucks don't function as touchstones for reality. Your truck, your money, your build, your decision to live with.

Trying to decide on a power plant.

Probably shouldn't pay much attention to my posts; I put a Packard V8 in mine.

jack vines

BTW, I also just recalled a friend who's into old Ford trucks bought a fleet of bread vans from a bakery which went out of business. He made really good bucks shipping the 4BT engines all over the country to those who had similar projects in mind. He did not keep one for his many project Fords.

[thunderations]

Saw a M5 in St Louis at the International with a VW diesel. Guess it had good power and great mileage.
Putting a heavy engine in the front of a 1/2 ton Studebaker could cause serious steering and braking problems, maybe even frame problems. I would think the smarter way to go would be to set the Studebaker body onto a later model Dodge frame with all the "stuff" the diesel was meant to have.

[what huh]

Putting a heavy engine in the front of a 1/2 ton Studebaker could cause serious steering and braking problems, maybe even frame problems. I would think the smarter way to go would be to set the Studebaker body onto a later model Dodge frame with all the "stuff" the diesel was meant to have.

I was just getting ready to say the same thing, probably cheaper also cause you only need to swap the body over to the chassis/engine combo you want. Much less problematic.

You can find a whole decent quality running diesel truck for a little more cash than buying a diesel motor/trans by itself. And if I did that I would just body swap on the new chassis

[t walgamuth]

I'd count the 4bt as too heavy.

I am building a 39 CE with an 83 mercedes turbodiesel and standard overdrive transmission. It's weight will be about the same or less than the original six including all the accessories such as ac and power brakes and steering. It will be a lot faster than the stock motor but will not burn the tires off like a v8 would and the benz company has a rep for offering parts for their cars forever.

It helps me that I have had over 30 benzes most old diesels and am very versed in their strengths and weaknesses.

My build thread is "39 coupe express progress".

[rockne10]

I would think the smarter way to go would be to set the Studebaker body onto a later model Dodge frame with all the "stuff" the diesel was meant to have.

That's what Kevin Roan did. He had to shorten the Dodge frame to fit the '56 Transtar, allowed room for 4" stacks between cab and bed. This is a Cummins ISB and there was no room up front for the radiator so it was moved to the bed.

http://vid57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/IDYSD%202010/P9040014.mp4

[RUMBLON]

Your opinions and results may vary, but just asking, have you driven many 4BT powered 1/2t pickups?

For those who may not know, the 4BT is a 1984-98 Cummins diesel 4-cylinder engine which weighs 782# and makes 105 horsepower. The one I drove, in an older International, ran as noisy and rough as if a paint shaker with a can full of rocks was under the hood, had no power and had to be plugged in to start if the weather was cold. I couldn't run away from it fast enough and wouldn't have taken it as a gift.



Having disparaged the 4BT as a swap candidate for a '51 short box, I recalled overhearing a female attendee at the Colorado Springs IM making a flight reservation home. "I don't care what it costs, I'm not riding across country in that old truck again in this lifetime." So, old trucks don't function as touchstones for reality. Your truck, your money, your build, your decision to live with.



Probably shouldn't pay much attention to my posts; I put a Packard V8 in mine.

jack vines

BTW, I also just recalled a friend who's into old Ford trucks bought a fleet of bread vans from a bakery which went out of business. He made really good bucks shipping the 4BT engines all over the country to those who had similar projects in mind. He did not keep one for his many project Fords.

I have seen several DODGE half ton 4BT trucks at various mopar shows. A couple of them getting in the 35MPG range according to the owners. And not that loud either both turbos. And more than 105 HP to be sure. I know they make two versions, one is industrial and not desirable.

[PackardV8]

I have seen several DODGE half ton 4BT trucks at various mopar shows. A couple of them getting in the 35MPG range according to the owners. And not that loud either both turbos. And more than 105 HP to be sure. I know they make two versions, one is industrial and not desirable.

The industrial version is the 4B, non-turbo and 55 horsepower. The 4BT can be modified, but stock it's 105hp. As far as the 35 MPG in a full-size pickup, that's between you and them if you choose to believe it.

jack vines

[oilnsteel]

I have considered a 4bt swap, too, but not into a Stude. We have a 1986 Bronco that has a mind boggling appetite for gasoline and is hideously complex.

A 4bt is heavy, but only 77 lbs more than a Packard V8. Some engines were equipped with a countershaft to minimize vibration. From what I have read (its on the internet, so it must be true), they can be warmed up to produce more horsepower
and are well nigh indestructible. 20-25 mpg seems to be possible in a full size Bronco. (double what we get now), and will run on WVO.

That being said, there may be better choices. I am often too willing to embrace bad ideas. I would love to hear other opinions.

JT

[PackardV8]

We have a 1986 Bronco that . . . . is hideously complex.

Your build, your money, your decision. Thoughts for your consideration:

1. Again, just asking, how is a fuel injected turbocharged Cummins less complex? FWIW, whatever perceived complexity the Ford gas engine has can be quickly, easily and cheaply eliminated with the readily available aftermarket carburetor and distributors.

2. Consider doing two steps before beginning. Do a spread sheet of all costs of the swap, the actual fuel costs involved, miles driven and how many years it would take for projected fuel savings to recoup the costs.

3. Do whatever it takes to have the opportunity to drive a 4BT conversion. Start one from dead cold in winter, drive it in stop-and-go traffic and on a long highway cruise.

jack vines

[RadioRoy]

Willingness to embrace bad ideas and stubbornness about letting them go is what this forum is all about - sometimes.

[64studeavanti]

I don't understand the negativity about diesel engines in a truck. As a caveat, I have no experience with the 4BT. While I am a big diesel fan, I don't believe you could get 35 mpg in a full size pickup. I have a Dodge 3500 dually that weighs about 7100 lbs empty. I get around 17 mpg with the 5.9 Cummins and the auto trans. I can see where you might get in the 20s with a lighter (5000 or so) half ton. As far as driving in winter, I have never had any problems with starting and running with any of my diesel rigs. You just plug them in (we regularly did this with gas engines as well) they will start right up and you run winterized fuel - or if cold enough #1 diesel.

Yes, I do know about cold weather as I used to live in Montana. In fact, I had a Ford Power Stroke that started well without plugging in if it wasn't below zero. Just hit the glow plugs 2 or 3 times and away you go. Keep in mind that almost all semi tractors are diesel.

As far as being simpler, while that may not be true, they are much more reliable. All I ever had to do to any of my rigs is change oil and filters. I have owned Power Stroke, Duramax, Cummins, and even an Isuzu diesel and have put upwards of 200,000 miles on each of them. My idea of a perfect truck would be a Cummins engine and an Allison transmission in a Ford!

You would have to weigh the costs and the best way to go may to do the chassis transplant if going to diesel. As far as recouping costs, you should do this no matter what you do - staying Studebaker, brand X swap or diesel. I suspect, you won't come out ahead no matter what.

As we used to say - real trucks do not have spark plugs!

[avantibngrant]

I am more of a purist, but I did put a Allis Buda G261 engine in a Cockshutt 50 tractor to replace the Buda B273 engine. The Allis engine was about 10 years newer. I have a lot more respect for hot rod people now! That would be an easy swap, but it had it's complications.
For an engine maybe a Hercules 226 or 198 gas or diesel or a Perkins 203 like a Massey 65 used? Maybe a 2 or 3 cylinder Detroit. That would sound cool! Just a few thoughts
Have a good one.

[PackardV8]

I don't understand the negativity about diesel engines in a truck.

I own and drive and appreciate diesel trucks. However, it's not negativity to point out what must be considered before spending considerable bucks to hang 785# over the nose of a 112" wheelbase half-ton. It's also not negativity to point out some of the wide-spread misconceptions about the operation thereof.

While I am a big diesel fan, I don't believe you could get 35 mpg in a full size pickup. I have a Dodge 3500 dually that weighs about 7100 lbs empty. I get around 17 mpg with the 5.9 Cummins and the auto trans. I can see where you might get in the 20s with a lighter (5000 or so) half ton.

Agree completely. (BTW, you're an honest man - their MPG is the second most exaggerated number from Dodge Cummins owners.) I have an F250 with the 6.0 which weighs 6,500# and it gets 17 MPG, whether in town or on the highway, full or empty, even uphill; a best of 18.5 unloaded on flat ground at 65 MPH cruise controlled down the middle of CA on I-5.

As far as being simpler, while that may not be true, they are much more reliable. All I ever had to do to any of my rigs is change oil and filters. I have owned Power Stroke, Duramax, Cummins, and even an Isuzu diesel and have put upwards of 200,000 miles on each of them.

You would have to weigh the costs and the best way to go may to do the chassis transplant if going to diesel. As far as recouping costs, you should do this no matter what you do - staying Studebaker, brand X swap or diesel. I suspect, you won't come out ahead no matter what.

Realistically, how many miles would a C-cab hobby truck possibly ever see? I've got way more money in mine than it would ever bring at a sale, but it pays off in smiles each time I drive it; not increased fuel economy.

Bottom line - this forum can answer questions posted and point out some things to consider, but it's always the owner who makes the decision, pays the bills and lives with the result.

jack vines

[oilnsteel]

Jack is right, rational and logical as usual. I can buy a lot of gas for the cost of the conversion at present prices. 4 gallons for a trip to town is OK at 1.65 a gallon, but my cheap CASO soul rebels at 4.50 a gallon and I know we're not done with that
kind of thing.

The 4bt may not be the ideal choice. Perhaps Mr. Walgamuth can tell us the best Mercedes diesels for truck duty.

None of us are entirely rational in our pursuit of Studebakers, especially those of us who drive them daily. We must not overlook doing something because it is fun to do, just for the cool factor or just because no one in their right mind would do it.
(have I described hot rodding adequately?)

Jim

PS I once put a Stude V8 in a 1966 International pickup. It seemed like the thing to do at the time.