Frame / Springs: How much "setting up" to do with Front End rebuild with frame-only?? Starting threads in NOS A-arms?

[bsrosell]

hi, doing a complete frame off with my 57 Golden Hawk.

I just got a new front-crossmember installed (old one cracked/welded...shot) and NOS control arms, king-pins, etc etc.. I have read that the adjustments for the front end should NOT be done unless the car is fully loaded (engine, body....).
BUT, it is SO convenient access right now obviously, and I'd like to do as much as possible before the engine goes back in, and (someday) when the body gets completed, and goes back on.

So, I'm wondering if a guy should adjust per the Manual 'as if' the car WERE loaded, and then know fine-tuning will required later 'under load'....? (and correspondingly don't pin nuts or Loctite threads! :-)
OR, is there a 'known bias" one way or another, or "rough specs" to shoot for when you are working with an unloaded frame only, so it will be very close once the weight of engine and body is finally added?

One in particular is the upper control shaft; piece of cake to install that now, without coil springs in place; a real bugger to get at later! Hope I guess right initially now and don't have to "flip" that little dog-bone 'inner shaft' it pivots on later!! (have heard it generally has the 'offset' holes towards the engine... but was made to flip for adjustment if needed. ugh! Hope NOT needed!)

Also, any 'tricks' or warnings about starting NOS trunion nuts in NOS control arms, that come UNTHREADED? I'm sure the factory had a jig to keep them straight ... I'm concerned about keeping the nuts (for king pins, top and bottom pivots) perpendicular to the control arms when starting them, cutting new threads.... Maybe they are kind of self-guiding (with the inner threaded pieces in place? ) but if they get cockeyed, I know those INNER threads for the king pin 'pins' will bind and control arms will not move up and down freely.
Thanks!
Barry

[StudeRich]

The ONLY real point of "Adjustment" that you could pre-set in advance is the only one that counts anyway.

That would be that UPPER OUTER Pin, with Cam built in for both Caster and Camber.

And then in the unloaded, incomplete State, the only adjustment there you can preset is the Caster, just run the King Pin all the way back to the rear after the Caps are "threaded" into the "A" Arms and you will be close to the amount of Negative Caster required.

Usually if you did not note whether the Upper Inner Shaft was at Max + Camber or minimum, just put the shaft OUTBOARD as much as possible, to + Camber and it will be able to adjust to Spec. with no problem.

You would lock the Outer, Upper Pin Lock Bolts down firmly, to hold the adjustment temporarily for the drive to the Alignment Shop, no Locktite is required, all bolts should have Lock Washers or Locking Nuts.

[bsrosell]

...Usually if you did not note whether the Upper Inner Shaft was at Max + Camber or minimum, just put the shaft OUTBOARD as much as possible, to + Camber and it will be able to adjust to Spec. with no problem....

You would lock the Outer, Upper Pin Lock Bolts down firmly, to hold the adjustment temporarily for the drive to the Alignment Shop.....

Thanks Rich; I DID mark my Inner Shafts, but replaced the front cross-member (and all new front end parts too), so kind of moot point 'what it was'.
The photo shows how I was planning to put it, and think this is what you are also recommending; correct?

Also, what alignment shops are both capable (KNOWLEDGE wise; plus things like the 'spreader' tool which I have and would bet they DON'T?) plus are willing to look at the Stude manual on HOW to do an alignment? Tires Plus and National Tire, etc...., I'd be surprised if most of their shops would even take it in beyond setting toe-in, as tie-rods have not changed much in 50 years. I'd love to be wrong about this! Are modern alignment shops really willing and capable of doing my Hawk??
I figured I was stuck working out the alignment myself, then bringing it somewhere to CHECK / CONFIRM how close I got.... Any suggested locations (chain stores) that do this? Or more likely have to find an 'older' shop with 'older' mechanics who know more than '80's and newer car suspensions??
THANKS FOR THE TIPS!
Barry

[StudeRich]

That should work, and the Shops I would check are NOT Tire Stores but Alignment and Front End Shops, that have been in business as LONG as possible, these are usually smaller, Independent Shops NOT Chain Stores.

Call the ones in the Yellow Pages that say: "in Business since 19XX".

[sweetolbob]

That should work, and the Shops I would check are NOT Tire Stores but Alignment and Front End Shops, that have been in business as LONG as possible, these are usually smaller, Independent Shops NOT Chain Stores.

Call the ones in the Yellow Pages that say: "in Business since 19XX".

Around here it's best to look for a shop that does bigger trucks as well as cars. They usually know kingpins etc. Be sure to take a manual with you or a copy of the specs and the adjustment method. Bob

[bsrosell]

Thanks guys!! Good tip re: truck shops... and a guy I went to church with OWNED his dad's business (truck repair), never thought to ask him, he'll know people in the business that go 'way back' I'll bet.... Maybe he can help me find someone to balance my brake-drums and swage the studs, too. Hmmmmm.... Thanks again!

[41 Frank]

As a former front end alignment tech I can tell you that you can put everything together without weight on the front end but the final alignment will have to wait until all weight is in the car and on the ground as you will only be able to guess to where it needs to be. Without weight the front wheels will have all sorts of negative camber in them because of the unequal control arm lengths. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. About all you can do is what studerich outlined in post #2

[Steve Winzar]

Hi Barry- I'm somewhat in the same position as yourself- I'm rebuilding from nuts and bolts and frame up. It is a pleasure to be able to just walk up to the structure and just bung things in place. Assuming that all studebaker V8 front crossmembers will sag inward, causing a negative camber tendency, the upper control arm trunnions ought to be rotated so that the shafts are thrown further outward. Your Picture shows just that. I had to remove my original steel outer bushes with a pneumatic impact driver/nut runner and I'd assume the same will be required for installation of the brand new ones. I'd advise some sort of alignment rig should be employed on that score. I wonder whether a metal rod turned to fit into the threaded hole and long enough to extend to center in the the hole in the other side of the Arm would serve? As far as a spreader tool is concerned- I made one similar to the photo in the shop manual and it worked fine. I'll bet if you can devise something like a compass/divider and jack it outward, it should work fine. BTW when you finally get the front end assembled, dont tighten the screws at the ends of the inner control arm shafts (where the rubber bushes are)- leave these a skerrick loose until you fully load the chassis, then tighten.
I've also got a block of wood cushioning the upper control arm against the frame. Regards, Steve

[Quentin]

[QUOTE=bsrosell;945118
any 'tricks' or warnings about starting NOS trunion nuts in NOS control arms, that come UNTHREADED?
Barry[/QUOTE]

Hi Barry, There are 1 1/8"-12 taps available on e-bay for between 30 and 100 bucks; an option would be to tap it for 1 - 1.5 turns, just to begin a thread and get it located straight.

[bsrosell]

Hi Barry, There are 1 1/8"-12 taps available on e-bay for between 30 and 100 bucks; an option would be to tap it for 1 - 1.5 turns, just to begin a thread and get it located straight.

thanks, that is a BIG tap!
I just had an idea .... wonder if it would work to take my old control arm, with best threads, make sure it is flat, clamp it tightly parallel to the NEW untapped control arm, and run a trunion nut through the old one, right on into the new one? Use the old control arm as a 'poor man's 'tap' ?