Engine: Repop crankshaft timing gear - Update

[64studeavanti]

Has any one had any experience with the repop crankshaft gear? The gear on my 64 Avanti R1 was looking a little worn so I decided to replace it during the rebuild. The old one came off just like it was supposed to. The new one went on partially, then would go no further. Now, I cannot get it off. I have been using the correct tools (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) and have had no problems with stock gears on other engines. I have tried putting pressure on the gear with the puller and heating it with a propane torch - no go. Any ideas on how to remove? I have ordered a couple of new replacements (I assume they are repop as well), but I need to get this one off.

[DEEPNHOCK]

I always heat the gear up and install it with a draw on the shaft with a nut, and tube and some lubed up large flat washers.
Have heated it by setting it on a light bulb, and have done it with the wife's oven, and have done it with the BBQ grill.
The grill was the quickest (and the quietest )

[gordr]

I'm guessing the screeching sound didn't come from the oven itself?

[52-fan]

Is there an aluminum crank gear? The question was asked about crank gear. I have seen aluminum cam gears, but not crank gears. In any case, heating the part would expand it.

[StudeRich]

There are no Aluminium Crank Gears, only (optional) Truck and Avanti Aluminum Cam Gears.
Yes the New replacement Steel Crank Gears do need heating in an Oven and then will drop right on with no pressure required.

[64studeavanti]

good to know now. any ideas on how to get it off so I can heat it up?

[StudeRich]

The Torch on the Gear should have done it, maybe you need to find a way to cool the Crank to prevent some of the heat transfer to the Crank.

[64studeavanti]

Maybe I didn't get it hot enough. If all else fails, I can remove the crank and take it over to the hydraulic press since it is not on all the way. I sure wasn't expecting it to be that much different than the original.

[Mike Van Veghten]

I'd be very cautious about heating the gear.
If it's been properly heat treated, excessive heat could destroy the as, heat treated properties.
If you "know" that you are only putting 300 or 400 degrees in it (evenly !), you should be ok.

Mike

[64studeavanti]

This is a real concern for me. If it needs to be heated to install and cannot easily be removed, what happens when the engine needs further work? Looks like this is a permanent install. Does anyone have any NOS gears?

[DEEPNHOCK]

Don't get your undies in a bunch.
This is not an abnormal procedure, and it works fine.
You don't want the gear loose on the crank and relying only on the key to stop the rotation.
It is supposed to be snug when assembled.
Don't worry... If someone said to heat it in an oven, someone else thinks you are going to put it on self clean and make it cherry red.
Just heat it up to 150 to 200 degrees and pick it up with welding gloves and shove it on.
I use a tool, but that's just for alignment.
If you need qualified help, be sure to go and get it.
It isn't rocket science.... It's a Studebaker

Put your puller (or use the threaded bolt holes in the gear) on the gear that's stuck partway on and put a little tension on it.
Heat it with your butane torch a while and it will probably pop right off.
You won't ever get enough heat into it with a propane torch to hurt it...

This is a real concern for me. If it needs to be heated to install and cannot easily be removed, what happens when the engine needs further work? Looks like this is a permanent install. Does anyone have any NOS gears?

[64studeavanti]

I guess I don't understand why the repops aren't just like the originals that lasted and worked well for almost 65 years. I have had originals on and off with tools similar to the ones in the workshop manual many times. This is the first time I have ever had any problems in the 15 years I have been working on Stude engines.

The originals were press fit - why are the new ones heat shrink? With this much work, how do you easily set the end play?

I tried more heat and no go, I think Rich is correct, the heat is being transferred to the crank. So I guess I will remove the crankshaft and try the hydraulic press.

I suppose that there could be something wrong with this gear. I have 2 more being shipped and I will carefully try them on one of the other engines I am building. However, I am still leery about how to remove them when the crank needs reground, the end play needs to be set, etc. Once they are fully installed, I don't see any way to use a press - not enough room.

Jeff, have you actually removed one of the new steel crank gears? I have put over 200 ft-lbs on the puller and the gear doesn't even budge!

[DEEPNHOCK]

No, I haven't.
But I just went through some similar gyrations with a 'new' ATI hub on a 'new' 289 crank.
I got it on, but not all the way, and it was a fight going on and coming off.
Here's what I had to do to get it off.. Had to build a bmf puller...
(and use Phil Harris's exquisite harmonic balancer installation tool)



I emory'd the crank and honed the hub and then heated the hub (bbq) and it went on nice.

<snip>
Jeff, have you actually removed one of the new steel crank gears? I have put over 200 ft-lbs on the puller and the gear doesn't even budge!

[StudeRich]

I know that fit is a PITA, but the way to do the Crankshaft end play adjustment is to drop the crank in, install Main Brg's. and Caps and use piece of Pipe (exhaust tubing will work), and a long Crank Bolt & Washer to space the thrust washer and shims on the Crank and move the Crank fore and aft measuring the play. Readjust shims as required. A lot easier with a press-on Gear or Heat-on Gear than fully assembling it.

[PlainBrownR2]

I guess I better jump in here, because this might end disastrously if I don't :P...............................

I had to rebuild a 289 for my '55 Commander last year. The crankshaft, and two pairs of connecting rods in it had scored and had to come out. I bought an NOS crankshaft, but had no gear for it, so I had to transfer the gear from one crankshaft to another, along with its shims. So, here's what I did:

To get it off:
The steel crankshaft gear has two tapped holes in it. Those are for the bolts to pull the gear off. Get some long coarse threaded bolts, and a puller. The puller that I used was either the same puller that I used to pull my steering wheel loose, or the puller from my Snap on kit. Anyway, run the bolts through the elongated holes in the puller, and tighten them up in the tapped holes in the gear. Set the threaded end of the puller on the nose of the crankshaft, as you would like you're pulling a steering wheel. Now, perform the same procedure as you would like removing a steering wheel. Turn the puller in until everything is aligned, and continue turning until the puller draws the gear off of the crankshaft. Continue twisting until the gear is free, or is able to be pulled from the crankshaft.

To get it back on:
Now, I used the redneck method to put it back on. Using Ted Harbit's recommendation, I hung my gear with the bolts still screwed in the tapped holes over a lit propane torch, with the flame being blown through the center of the gear. I had mine over heat for maybe 5-10 minutes, or enough to where it was hot to the touch. While that was going. I cleaned and lubed the crankshaft nose itself, and put the shims in. You wanna make sure that you put the shims and all of the hardware back in the same manner that it came off, and you wanna do that BEFORE putting the crankshaft gear back on. Now, using a pair of welding gloves, and maybe something to grab the bolts, take the gear off and IMMEDIATELY slide the gear on as far over BOTH Woodruff keys as it will go on the crankshaft. I say immediately, because once it's taken off the flame, you have seconds before those few critical thousandths of an inch disappear because the crank gear is now cooling rather quickly. Once it's on, and couldn't go any further, I made a pusher using some pipe that was the length of the crankshaft nose and large enough to slip over the nose, and I used some washers and the crankshaft bolt to push the gear all the way to the back of the shims. Once that was done, I slipped on the hub, pulleys, and everything that would go on the crankshaft, and torqued the crankshaft screw to specification, which further compressed the gear in the back on the shims. After that, then I had to dial indicate the endplay on the crankshaft according to the shop manual, using my granddad's dial indicator, magnetic base, and a large screwdriver. Personally, I'd rather do this step only once, because it's alot of work to pull and put on the crankshaft gear to get the end play right.

Did I mention that I did all of that with the block flipped over on an engine stand? That makes this soooo much easier!
The important thing to also remember is that the crank, cam, and hub all have tapped holes threaded into them for the puller's bolts to thread into. There shouldn't be any need to use the jaws on the puller to grab those items from behind unless the threads are stripped.