Engine: Need suggestions for oilpan removal

[tomlewis]

I tried starting my rebuilt '37 President engine recently. Apparently the machine shop installed the oil pump 180 degrees out and that makes the distributor 180 out also because it only goes in one way. So the pan has to come off because on President engines the oil pump is in the pan, not external like the Dictator. To make sure there were no leaks, the shop put glue (looks like yellow 3M weatherstrip adhesive) to both sides of the pan gasket. This stuff is just not letting loose. I won't just pry away at the pan for fear of damaging it.

When questioned, the shop said they use a razor knife or sharp putty knife to cut through the glue and gasket. I have done as much of that as I can, but now that the engine is back in the chassis there are all kinds of things in the way (Steering box, exhaust system, flywheel, front motor mount, etc). I've tried squirting 3M adhesive remover in where I have been able to get a razor knife with no effect. Does anyone have a suggestion for how I might get this pan off short of pulling the engine back out so I have more access? I'm fairly well pissed about this. I've already ruined the engine paint job. If the shop was closer than almost 1000 miles away (one-way) I'd pull it and they would have it back. I'm $10,000 into it and it's not right. St Louis is less than 160 days away and this is a major roadblock. Thanks. Tom

[jnormanh]

I tried starting my rebuilt '37 President engine recently. Apparently the machine shop installed the oil pump 180 degrees out and that makes the distributor 180 out also because it only goes in one way. So the pan has to come off because on President engines the oil pump is in the pan, not external like the Dictator. To make sure there were no leaks, the shop put glue (looks like yellow 3M weatherstrip adhesive) to both sides of the pan gasket. This stuff is just not letting loose. I won't just pry away at the pan for fear of damaging it.

When questioned, the shop said they use a razor knife or sharp putty knife to cut through the glue and gasket. I have done as much of that as I can, but now that the engine is back in the chassis there are all kinds of things in the way (Steering box, exhaust system, flywheel, front motor mount, etc). I've tried squirting 3M adhesive remover in where I have been able to get a razor knife with no effect. Does anyone have a suggestion for how I might get this pan off short of pulling the engine back out so I have more access? I'm fairly well pissed about this. I've already ruined the engine paint job. If the shop was closer than almost 1000 miles away (one-way) I'd pull it and they would have it back. I'm $10,000 into it and it's not right. St Louis is less than 160 days away and this is a major roadblock. Thanks. Tom

I'm no expert on that engine, but can't you just move the plug wires and solve the problem?

[ToGa 42]

I agree with jnormanh, just bring # 1 cylinder up on compression stroke TDC, and wherever the rotor points, call that #1 cylinder, install #1 plug wire in that position. Than follow around in the correct rotation and sequence with the other plug wires. The engine doesn't care where #1 is located on the distributor, it just has to be timed to fire each cylinder at the correct time. Hope this helps!
Tom T.

[tomlewis]

I almost put in my original post that moving the plug wires around would solve the running problem, but I'm not going to do that. The distributor is the type where the wires come out the side, not out of the top. It has the four front cylinder wires coming out the front side and the four back cylinder wires coming out the back of the distributor. I will never have this car judged in the SDC, but I will in the AACA, and having plug wires looped all around the engine compartment is not going to happen. Tom

[jclary]

I almost put in my original post that moving the plug wires around would solve the running problem, but I'm not going to do that. The distributor is the type where the wires come out the side, not out of the top. It has the four front cylinder wires coming out the front side and the four back cylinder wires coming out the back of the distributor. I will never have this car judged in the SDC, but I will in the AACA, and having plug wires looped all around the engine compartment is not going to happen. Tom

Perhaps there is something I'm not understanding, but, could you not make a shaft with a tang on it to move the oil pump tang into position to match the correct corresponding position for the distributor?

You did say they installed the oil pump 180 out. Are you saying that the drive gear for the oil pump is installed so that there is no way to install the distributor, or simply the drive gear was not aligned properly for the distributor tang? Since I don't have this particular engine...you understand my confusion. But, I'm thinking that removing the oil pan, and making the change at the pump is a lot of work if it could be done from topside by simply engaging the tang and rotating the drive gear.

[nvonada]

Sounds like they used a silicone RTV sealant (RTV="Room Temperature Vulcanizing" in case you ever get on Jeopardy). RTV seals very well and is fairly adhesive. But once it releases it releases quickly and all at once. The trick is to get that to happen. I just went though this doing a flush/fill on my minivan's transmission. Basically you have to cut as much of the gasket as you can then pry. However don't just pry in one spot. Work all the way around. Round up every putty knife you can find and pry gently where ever you can get room. The pan will release.

This picture is using a similar technique on a computer tablet with guitar picks. Same idea.

[jnormanh]

Again, I'm not familiar with your car, but is it not possible to modify the ign rotor to install 180 degrees out? On more modern cars there's just a flat on the shaft which the rotor fits. It that's the way yours works, you could bore the hole in the rotor round, then create a new flat on the opposite side with high temp epoxy, or a metal shim epoxied in place.

Or, maybe, move the metal arm 180 degrees.

[TWChamp]

Again, I'm not familiar with your car, but is it not possible to modify the ign rotor to install 180 degrees out? On more modern cars there's just a flat on the shaft which the rotor fits. It that's the way yours works, you could bore the hole in the rotor round, then create a new flat on the opposite side with high temp epoxy, or a metal shim epoxied in place.

Or, maybe, move the metal arm 180 degrees.

I'd like to see a picture of the rotor, but turning the metal top part 180* sure sounds like the easiest way to correct it, and that's what I'd try.
If the engine ever came out again, then I'd turn the shaft 180*.

[rkapteyn]

The first thing is to identify this shop or just the town that they are located.
How much did the engine rebuilt cost? $10.000 ?
Stick with the Studebaker forum recommended shops.
If they did a stupid thing like installing the oil pump backwards and gluing your oilpan what else is screwed up?
I may have an oilpan but I have not seen it for awhile so it may have been sold.
Robert Kapteyn

[tomlewis]

Well, the pan is off. I used every scraper, putty knife , linoleum knife and screwdriver in the tool chest. I even sharpened up the narrow edge of an aluminum paint mixing stick. nvonada nailed it though. I was finally able to get it to move just a little bit and then wedged another putty knife in and pretty soon it released all around. Thanks to everyone who responded. Now I'll get the oil pump out to see exactly how it was installed. I'll not name the shop in a public forum until I know for sure it was installed incorrectly (and maybe not even then). Tom

[mbstude]

Tom, I'm glad you stuck with it and are resolving the issue the right way.

Rigging up a backwards rotor would do nothing but confuse the next guy who works on it, and make it pretty tough to do a simple tune up. The car is a '37 President Coupe, for cryin' out loud. It deserves to not be a cob-job.

[altair]

I had an early Dodge 6 with the same issue I removed the pan and the oil pump, re-installed the pump and pan only to find the distriubutor to be out several degrees it wasn't exactly 180. As the gear drive reengaged in to the cam it was in a different position however there was enough travel on the distributor adjustment to overcome this. The distributor is fitted with two adjustments a major and minor. The one you can see facing upwards is for minor adjustments and also there is clamp type adjustment underneath the assembly to allow the distributor to be placed in any position regardless of the position of the oil pump. When these units are assembled there is no specific position for thew oil pump. Where it engages into the gear on the cam doesn't matter, the distributor is then adjusted to that position. It is conceivable that many engines will have number one on the distributor in a variety of positions. Distributors can be installed out 180 however the oil pump may be installed any where in between, the distributor just has to be matched.