Engine: oil change interval on a 200 mile per year car

[mrjazzmillcreek]

Wondering about the right interval to change the oil and filter on a car that is driven only about 200 to 500 miles per year.Also wondering if a newer synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 would be a good idea to use on a newly rebuilt engine that is driven so little.

[Gunslinger]

Once a year whether it needs it or not. I wouldn't bother using synthetic oil in this case...just don't see the advantage or cost-effectiveness.

[Mike Van Veghten]

While a good synthetic is always a good idea, it would'nt be of much benifit in your case. I use Mobil 1 in most of my vehicles if that matters.
And as Gunslinger says, once a year is a good practice.

One thing dealing as much with the oil as anything else...if you aren't going to drive it....DO NOT start it. I've never seen ANY benifit with the people that start the engine, let it run a few minutes and shut it off every month. It does "nothing" in the engine any good. Matter of fact, it lets the sitting oil form acids that can attack the soft bearings (main and rod) and put small pits in them. The oil needs to be fully up to operating temperature (around 200 deg.) to let it do its full job. It helps nothing to do this practice.

Beside..summer's comming (?), get that baby ready to drive...!

Mike

[jbroomer]

I agree with Gunslinger. That was always the last thing that I did before putting my seasonal car away. You're draining out the contaminants that can cause troubles to your engine internals while sitting over the winter (assuming you're in a cold winter location).

[swvalcon]

Twice a year once when you take it out then warm it up good and change just as you put it away for the winter. On the last oil change run it just long enough to flush any old oil out of the system after your oil change.

[SilverHawkDan]

All good answers. As a fleet mechanic I got to do a lot of oil analyzing for free from our oil supplier. I did this for over eight years. Some things I learned. We had vehicles and equipment and some got lots of use like police cars and some did more sitting. So what did I learn? First every time you start and engine and don't bring it up to normal operating temperature you do harm. During warm up the engine is not running efficiently and is producing lots of by products of combustion. What are they? Acids and bits of carbon and even some very corrosive compounds. Once the oil is fully warmed up the chemicals that are added to the oil begins to go to work and they are very effective at neutralizing they compounds and acids. But they work in conjunction with heat to work. We had the best success on the stuff that sat all winter in a wet climate when we changed the oil before we parked it for winter. For that oil change we warmed the engine all the way up and even ran them under load where possible to get them working at peak efficiency. Then the oil was drained (we installed oil drain plugs that allowed us to drain the oil when really hot, they were made by Fram at that time and I think they are still available) That oil was sent out for analysis. That drained out the bad stuff as proven by oil analysis. We would drain the oil before we started the engine in the Spring and were surprised to find that the oil was actually slightly contaminated even though the engine had never been run since the oil was installed. The oil additives had been at work on the contaminates that we concluded were coming in with the air that circulated through and engine through the breathing system. That did surprise us. We also inspected the engines before we started them and found one thing that had the ability to do the most damage to a sitting engine. When we bore scoped the cylinders we found that a thin layer of rust had formed on the cylinder walls. Again we concluded this came in through the air filter and intake system. So we did a little experiment. We treated half the engines with four ounces of Marvel mystery oil per cylinder and then hand turned the engines over to make sure we didn't get too much in there. This was done after the oil change. Then we re-installed the plugs or glow plugs depending on gas or diesel. The other engine we turned over by hand every month until they were ready to be used again. The hand turned over engines showed no signs of rust on the walls as expected. Of course the Marvel treated engines had the plugs removed and then turned over with the starter to blow out any excess Marvel that might remain. We didn't want to risk hydraulic locking any engines even though when inspected there was very little if any Marvel puddle in the cylinders. It had found it way past the rings and was now in the crankcase. Those engines also showed no signs of rust as expected. We decided to use the Marvel method for the next ten years and never had any type of engine failure so I never got to measure the walls to see which method reduced wear better but I suspect the Marvel method worked better. We could have used ATF or even a light weight oil and got the same results. So I pass this on to help you maximize the life of your engines.
Dan

[christophe]

All good answers. As a fleet mechanic I got to do a lot of oil analyzing for free from our oil supplier. I did this for over eight years. Some things I learned. We had vehicles and equipment and some got lots of use like police cars and some did more sitting. So what did I learn? First every time you start and engine and don't bring it up to normal operating temperature you do harm. During warm up the engine is not running efficiently and is producing lots of by products of combustion. What are they? Acids and bits of carbon and even some very corrosive compounds. Once the oil is fully warmed up the chemicals that are added to the oil begins to go to work and they are very effective at neutralizing they compounds and acids. But they work in conjunction with heat to work. We had the best success on the stuff that sat all winter in a wet climate when we changed the oil before we parked it for winter. For that oil change we warmed the engine all the way up and even ran them under load where possible to get them working at peak efficiency. Then the oil was drained (we installed oil drain plugs that allowed us to drain the oil when really hot, they were made by Fram at that time and I think they are still available) That oil was sent out for analysis. That drained out the bad stuff as proven by oil analysis. We would drain the oil before we started the engine in the Spring and were surprised to find that the oil was actually slightly contaminated even though the engine had never been run since the oil was installed. The oil additives had been at work on the contaminates that we concluded were coming in with the air that circulated through and engine through the breathing system. That did surprise us. We also inspected the engines before we started them and found one thing that had the ability to do the most damage to a sitting engine. When we bore scoped the cylinders we found that a thin layer of rust had formed on the cylinder walls. Again we concluded this came in through the air filter and intake system. So we did a little experiment. We treated half the engines with four ounces of Marvel mystery oil per cylinder and then hand turned the engines over to make sure we didn't get too much in there. This was done after the oil change. Then we re-installed the plugs or glow plugs depending on gas or diesel. The other engine we turned over by hand every month until they were ready to be used again. The hand turned over engines showed no signs of rust on the walls as expected. Of course the Marvel treated engines had the plugs removed and then turned over with the starter to blow out any excess Marvel that might remain. We didn't want to risk hydraulic locking any engines even though when inspected there was very little if any Marvel puddle in the cylinders. It had found it way past the rings and was now in the crankcase. Those engines also showed no signs of rust as expected. We decided to use the Marvel method for the next ten years and never had any type of engine failure so I never got to measure the walls to see which method reduced wear better but I suspect the Marvel method worked better. We could have used ATF or even a light weight oil and got the same results. So I pass this on to help you maximize the life of your engines.
Dan

This reminds me of the way army vehicles were put in long storage. They made them run pouring a little oil in the carburetor. They let them smoke a little before shutting the engine. Then, exhaust and intake were sealed to avoid any entry of air. I suppose this was giving good results as they made that for a long time and, maybe, still are.

[nvonada]

You can buy fogging oil for storage of an engine. It comes out of the can in a thick foam. Per the instructions you idle the engine and just like Chrisophe said, you spray the oil in the carb which should stall out the engine. Then remove the spark plugs, spray more oil in each cylinder, turn the engine over a few times, and leave it. It is also a really good idea to run the carb dry to keep that from sludging up. Keep the tank full to mitigate condensation and use Sta-Bil or similar to keep the gas good. And bias-ply tires will develop flat spots so putting the car up on blocks is not a bad idea.

I change my oil every spring but I am thinking about doing it in the fall instead. I usually drive the car quite a bit in the winter but this winter has been so brutal it has not been started since December. Typically I do 1000 miles or so a year.

[Ed Gray]

There are common procedures for boat owners that would work for seldom used cars, too. Fill up before winter layup, keep batteries on chargers, keep humidity down by using electric heaters, and service every year regardless of operating hours. When I had a boat I would replace the batteries every year, too, since a breakdown on the water can be more than an inconvenience.

[Gunslinger]

Ya mean ya just can't call AAA to come out and give ya a jump when drifting around on the water?

[DEEPNHOCK]

Good info...
One thing I do is change the oil before storing.
I don't want oil with any acids in it setting on soft metal (bearing surfaces) for long periods of time.
Also pull the coil wire and crank the engine every once and a while.
Circulate the oil a bit, without running the engine.
For ranch stuff that's used all year, I change oil (and filter) every change of season.
Might seem overkill, but it's easier to remember.
(I tried writing hours and dates on the filter ends, but the numbers I need always end up upside down

[StudeNorm]

All of the above is really good advice. The important thing to remember is what are you really saving here. These suggestions are made with the idea that you want to "save your engine"... The cost might be $30 to $50 per year extra but the expense and inconvenience of rebuilding a Stude or any motor is in the thousands. To me that makes the question moot. Buy your filters in bulk. Stock up on good oil when it is on sale. Do the math then do the oil changes.

Also, do what you can to keep the rust from forming on the cylinder walls. As discussed above this might mean fogging the engine when you shut it down or storing in a heated building. Allowing bare metal to cold-cycle is a guaranteed way to create surface moisture and the ensuing rust. And always try to run an engine to operating temp before shutting it off.

Great thread. Excellent advice...