Frame / Springs: Removing Front Springs

[wittsend]

I've searched out the forum regarding the removal of front springs ('64 Daytona). I have done this numerous times on other cars, but never on a kingpin style front end. I am NOT looking to rebuild the front end, I only want to replace the springs. Unfortunately the posts I've found basically talk about rebuilding the front end and go into greater disassemble than I need. Thus, there was a general absence to describe things that might fall out.

From what I've read the car is supported by the frame, the wheel removed, the sway bar released from the A-arms, the shock removed (and a chain secured through the spring for safety). A jack is placed under the spring pocket on the lower A-arm. The lower kingpin cotter pin and nut are removed. The jack is slowly released, the A-arm will drop and eventually detach from the kingpin and then...???

My concern is what parts (needle bearings, thrust bearings, seals etc.) might fall out and confound reassembly. It seems it would be wise to support (wire up) the spindle and everything attached to it to keep them from dropping too. My hope is that the A-arm drops, the springs are swapped and the process is simply reversed. Then again I've done things like this and something (that is never addressed) always comes as an unpleasant surprise.

Thanks, Tom

[sals54]

Tom, You've got it pretty much nailed on the process. Yes, it would be a good idea to wire up the spindle. One thing to watch for is the cork seal that sets between the king pin and the lower control arm. You may still need a pry bar when removing the spring. Don't let it pop out of there and hit you in the face. That's why I always use a chain.
Be sure that the king pin and the lower control arm are still lined up when you put it back together as there is a keyway that needs to stay aligned. A second jack to move the spindle up and down while putting the two parts back together helps a bit. A hammer to tap things side to side also helps.
DON'T HAMMER ON THE NUT, OR THE BOTTOM OF THE SPINDLE WHILE PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER. I know you know that already, but I had to say it anyway. Be patient with the reassembly. It'll go back together.

I sure hope you're cutting the springs to lower the car so it sits low and cool. Anyway, good luck with the swap.

[blackhawk]

Since you just want to replace the spring, I suggest that you place the floor jack under the center of the lower control arm inner shaft, unbolt the inner shaft and lower the inside of the control arm. This way you can leave the spindle intact. It is a lot less work and has the added safety advantage that the opening you are creating is away from you. I have removed the front springs this way several times.

Dale

[jackb]

see post #3 above directly from the shop manual and away you go....I've done this 6-7 times without problems. Only finesse point is capturing the inner nuts in a taped off 3/4 open end wrench...but even if you drop them, they're standard grade 8 nuts and they will likely fall through the opening in the bottom of the frame any way......

[Warren Webb]

I agree. I always only remove what I absolutely have to, in this case only remove the lower control arm inner mounts to the crossmember. I reinforce it with a threaded rod going down from the upper shock mount to a flat stock bar the goes through the spring itself. This is a small extra margin of safety just in case the spring wants to fly off somewhere. I would not take apart the spindle.

[pinehurstbob]

I have changed springs and bushings 4 times now. Put the car on stands and remove the front wheels. Then remove the sway bar, shock absorbers, disconnect the tie rod and put a spring compressor on the coil spring. I only tighten the compressor enough to take the tension off the spring. I then loosen the bolts that hold the lower control arm to the frame. Once this drops the spring can be safely removed. If you are doing bushings, you can remove the upper control arm by accessing the bolts now that the spring is out. This way the entire king pin and control arm assembly remains in tact and there are no little parts to fall out. If you are just doing springs you don't need to remove the upper control arm bolts. I get the springs banded for safety reasons for reassembly. This way you keep all your fingers!! Good luck
Bob

[JimC]

Semi-related: What are the favored replacement springs for a V8 setup? I've seen a lot of chatter about the moog springs. Is that pretty much what everyone uses?

[sweetolbob]

Cutting torch. Leave the shocks on the car, jack the car by the front cross member to let the suspension hang and torch the second coil from the bottom. Be ready for the thump when it lets go. Then torch two more coils, pull the shocks and pickup the pieces.

There is no way I'll fool with these loaded springs unless I want to save them by disassembling the front suspension. Scary as hell!!

Then you can pull the suspension pieces and press the kingpin knuckle out of the kingpin in a civilized manner.

Bob

[wittsend]

A question for those of you who have removed the INNER, lower A-arm bolts; is it not difficult to align the bolt holes given that you are trying to position the A-arm under the tension of a loaded spring? It seems that by releasing the lower A-arm at the OUTER kingpin position you are only attempting to position the free floating spindle/upper A-arm on reinstall.

Also, is there a torque setting for the kingpin bolt? Or, is it just tighten - to a point the cotter pin can be installed?

Lastly, Sals54, I'm not sure what the end result will be. My '64 Daytona has a 350 Chevy and a 700R4 trans. That has removed about 150 pounds from the front of the car. It sits about 1-1/2" higher than a similar car with the Studebaker engine/transmission. Being a CASO kind of guy I found a set of '86 Buick LeSabre variable rate springs at U-Pick Parts. These are "similar" to the CC 655 Moog's but not to the "Cargo Carrier" spec's. The major difference being the wire size is a bit smaller. It is my hope that I'll get the advantages of the variable rate Moog 655 springs, but the smaller wire will be better suited to my lighter front end. I don't have all the specs in my head at the moment, but the spring rate of the Le Sabre spring seemed to fall somewhere in an appropriate range.

Tom

[Tom Bredehoft]

Yeah, aligning those bolt holes can be difficult. I have a long tapered drift, that did the trick. Put the drift through a hole in the lower arm, find the matching hole in the frame and work them together. Put an adjacent screw/nut in place, snug it down and remove the drift. It's easy with four hands.

[JoeHall]

I guess there are several ways to do it, though preliminaries are mostly the same: jack vehicle up high; remove tires & wheels, hubs, backing plates, tie-rods, shocks, and anti-sway-bar; loosen upper & lower 'A' arm pivot bolts, etc..

Then come the variances. I prefer to: position a large floor jack where the pad catches just behind the lower, outer pivot pin and raise it till the upper A' arm just lifts off the rubber jounce; loop a large chain through the spring and around the 'A' arms; use a bungee cord to lash the spindle in place so it can't drop down off the king pin; back off the king pin nut 3-4 turns then whack the tie-rod arm with a hammer so the spindle breaks loose and drops down against the nut. I then remove the nut and alternate lowering the jack a little and tapping the tie-rod arm till the king pin is out of the hole, then continue to lower the jack slowly till the spring tension is off, and remove it. Re-assemble in reverse order. The chain is a back-up, in case something slips.
I also prefer to use rubber insulators, top and bottom, to insure there are no squeaks. You can make them out of garden hose, and temporarily hold them in place with tie-ties.

[Jeff_H]

Had springs out of my '53 several times. The shop manual method is to put a floor jack under the inner lower A arm shaft and drop it down. That is the way I've done it. The only difference is I put a spring compressor on the spring first to remove some of the pressure on the A arm. Additionally, should the jack slip, the spring will have less movement/force.

I also found it near impossible to get the spring back in w/o pre-compressing it with the compressor. The uncompressed spring too long to allow the A arm up enough to have decent leverage with the jack to push it back up to the frame. I would start to lift the car off the stands first before making any headway. Too dangerous.

You will need a long thin drift (or punch) to get the A arm shaft bolt holes lined up. Find one at least 18" long with a small point.

I personally wouldn't take the spindle nut off and drop the end of the A arm. There is a tapered key in there and IMO too easy to damage the end of the king pin. Some do it that way just fine, so just a preference.

[pinehurstbob]

To answer witsend's question, no its not diffecult to align the inner bolt holes if the coil spring is compressed and banded first. Done it 4 times now
Bob

[blackhawk]

I never had a problem lining up the inner bolt holes either and I have never had to compress the spring prior to installing it. I suppose that is because in more recent times I have been installing the heavy duty springs for the cars equipped with V8 engines and they are fairly short. I have seen longer front springs though and I can see where they might pose a problem. I did remove and install the springs on my '55 Champion decades ago. I can't remember how long those were but they went back together okay. I had never heard of a spring compressor at the time, so it did not cross my mind to use one. ~ Dale

[sals54]

I know what the shop manual says about dropping the inner lower control arm. See above for all the problems associated with putting it back to together. Lost bolts, hogging out the holes in the front cross member, compressing the spring while trying to align the bolt holes, then needing 4 hands and the leverage to put this back together in the shop manuals way also has you trying to do it while the car is jacked up and you're lying on your back under the car and prying on the control arms and compressing springs...

And heaven forbid you don't unload the weight on the jack stand while you're aligning the lower control arm with the floor jack and trip the car off the jack.

The method I outlined above allows you to do the entire job while using one jack stand, one hydraulic jack, and you NEVER have to put yourself under the car. I've done these spring swaps dozens of times while changing out cut springs. I hardly have to lift my butt off the milk crate I'm sitting on while doing the hard part of the work. Sorry, but sometimes the shop manual is for suckers. I can change out both springs on the front of my Coupe, (below), in less than an hour... total time from pulling out the floor jack to test driving the new springs.
I promise you can't do that by using the shop manual method.