Rear Axle: Ratio(s) Required in Orderto Get Close-ratio 4-speed.

[CarCrosswordDan]

Did Studebaker require the customer to 1st order a certain ratio(s) rear axle in order to be able to order the close-ratio 4-speed ? Thanks, Dan

[StudeRich]

I could stand corrected Dan, but it is my understanding that for "Normal" Production & customer orders, there was no choice of 2.20 Low vs 2.54 Low.

It was a "change", done by year model or month/year to discontinue one in favor of the other.
It happened in the middle of the 1962 Year Model run when the Chevy case Trans. requiring a special one-off Clutch Housing, was replaced with the more common to Studebaker, Ford case T-10 that used the Standard 3 Speed Clutch Housing.

Of course since both were in stock in the International huge Parts Depot, Plant 8, South Bend and Zone Warehouses, either could probably be "Special" Order requested but in very limited usage.

The 3.07 Axle ratio was not "recommended" for use with the 2.20 Low gear T-10 4 Speed.

[SN-60]

Studebaker had specific final drive ratios they would Recommend for the different engine/transmission combos, (std/opt), but would install on special order anything the customer requested.
"No problem--Just show me the money" !!!

[(S)]

There was a service letter to dealers concerning the cars sold with JT and JTS engines stating to NOT sell any with the 4.55 type gears meant for 'drag racing' and then expect the engine to live if the car was ever 'driven for normal service'

It may have also come up in the Lombarti papers....

[Dick Steinkamp]

My '63 Hawk had a wide ratio 4 speed (2.54 low) and a 3.31 rear end (8.4 overall ratio in low). This car was super easy to launch and drive and the 3.31 rear made it a pretty good freeway flier.

My 53 Starliner had a 3.54 rear end and the close ratio 4 speed (2.20 low). This was a 7.8 overall ratio in low gear. I loved the "hot rod" feeling of the close ratio trans and it was "OK" on the launch but you had to be a little more delicate with the clutch.

With a 3.73 rear the Starliner would have had an 8.2 overall ratio in low and with 3.90s it would be 8.6. Either of those would have made it an easier car to launch, but not much fun at 70 MPH for a long distance.

[Chucks Stude]

Dick, how do you tell the difference between the two without tearing the transmission apart? I just put a 3.08 rear end in mine, with a 4 speed, and it launches about the same as with a 3.31. The rpm's are lower on the highway. So which one would be in a full flow 62?

[StudeRich]

Ted Harbit just posted recently when someone asked that question. He said there is a ring (circle), actually groves cut in all of the high splines on the input shaft to I.D. one of the two, I believe it was the late type with the 2.54 Low.

[irish]

Ted Harbit just posted recently when someone asked that question. He said there is a ring (circle), actually groves cut in all of the high splines on the input shaft to I.D. one of the two, I believe it was the late type with the 2.54 Low.

I'm still looking for a 4-speed with the 2.54 first gear (Chevy bolt pattern preferred). My Daytona was originally equipped with one, the previous owner had made an attempt at converting it to an auto.

Joe

[Dick Steinkamp]

Ted Harbit just posted recently when someone asked that question. He said there is a ring (circle), actually groves cut in all of the high splines on the input shaft to I.D. one of the two, I believe it was the late type with the 2.54 Low.

Yes...Ted identified this trans...



...as a 2.54 low due to the single grove on the input shaft.

With the trans in the car, you might try getting the car in the air, take out the spark plugs, put the car in low gear, turn the engine over (using the timing mark and pointer to be exact), see if it takes a little over 2 or a little over 2 1/2 revolutions of the engine to turn the drive shaft exactly one revolution.

[StudeRich]

OK, thanks Dick for finding that Pic from that post and clearifiying it. Apparently then, I mis spoke about it being a "late" type that came with 2.54 Low, it must have been the '61 to early '62 that did, as is shown here with the VERY wide Chevy. bolt spacing.

Of course you could have either case with either gear set.
Case in point: my Ford case T-10 I got at the 1979 SDC International Meet from Newman & Altman (Standard Surplus) had the early Chevy case 2.54 Low, complete guts installed into the late Ford pattern case because it was a much better seller due to the huge number of late Clutch housings from both 3 and 4 speeds out there in Studeland.

Of course they needed to get rid of the probably fairly large pile of these "unpopular" Chevy. case Transmissions, due to the very limited number of cars built in that 1 1/2 model year time frame with the "Oddball" Clutch Housings.

Maybe they actually sold the gutted scrap Chevy cases to a Chevy. person or Co. OR they could have gotten the scrap value from a recycler.

[irish]

OK, thanks Dick for finding that Pic from that post and clearifiying it. Apparently then, I mis spoke about it being a "late" type that came with 2.54 Low, it must have been the '61 to early '62 that did, as is shown here with the VERY wide Chevy. bolt spacing.

Of course you could have either case with either gear set.
Case in point: my Ford case T-10 I got at the 1979 SDC International Meet from Newman & Altman (Standard Surplus) had the early Chevy case 2.54 Low, complete guts installed into the late Ford pattern case because it was a much better seller due to the huge number of late Clutch housings from both 3 and 4 speeds out there in Studeland.

Of course they needed to get rid of the probably fairly large pile of these "unpopular" Chevy. case Transmissions, due to the very limited number of cars built in that 1 1/2 model year time frame with the "Oddball" Clutch Housings.

Maybe they actually sold the gutted scrap Chevy cases to a Chevy. person or Co. OR they could have gotten the scrap value from a recycler.

Rich my understanding is the early Chevy style cases came in both the 2.20 and 2.54 apparently most (maybe all?) of the Larks with the Chevy style trans received the 2.20 first gear and most (maybe all?) of the Hawks with the Chevy style trans received the 2.54 first gear. When Stude switched to the Ford style trans they were normally (but not always) the 2.54 first gear wide-ratio transmission...confusing isn't it!

Joe

[StudeRich]

Yeah you may be right, I won't argue that one for sure! I was going by the Chevy case, 2.54 Low picture that Ted posted so I corrected my statement, and we all know that Ted knows his 4 Speeds! Of course he never said that is how most '61, early '62's came from the factory.

[Chicken Hawk]

I think I better respond some here. I was always under the impression all wide ratio 2.54 low gear Stude T-10 transmissions have the ring around the input shaft and the close ratio 2.20 did not have the ring. Every one I've ever worked on was this way. However, I had someone say they had one or the other that was not this way and mentioned one that had two rings. I'm thinking this must have been a GM as they did have them with up to three rings I believe.

So I have no "proof" of what I said but still think it is right but could be wrong. Also, I was under the impression the early ones came with the 2.20 but you could order them with the 2.54 and when they went to the later Stude pattern they were 2.54 but still could order the 2.20. Again, I have no proof of this but being only about 30 years old when these came out I did delve into them quite a bit.

Ted

Yeah you may be right, I won't argue that one for sure! I was going by the Chevy case, 2.54 Low picture that Ted posted so I corrected my statement, and we all know that Ted knows his 4 Speeds! Of course he never said that is how most '61, early '62's came from the factory.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Here is the T10 out of my Chevy powered Starliner...



This was very definitely a 2.20 low transmission, but notice the one groove.

It could be Chevy pilot shafts were marked differently than Studes?

I wonder if the one Pat originally asked about and that I pictured above is actually a GM trans?

I wonder if pilot shafts can be changed between different ratio transmissions?

[irish]

Well that really throws a wrench in the works! I also thought the 'groove' in the shaft indicated a 2.54 first gear wide-ratio transmission. Their must be some way to know which transmission is which.

Joe