Cool/Heat: Is this possible??

[John Brayton]

Hi Guys,

I had Griffin build a radiator for our 53 Commander with a 62 GT Hawk 289. Having heat issues even at freeway speeds. I've read the many posts and have cleaned the block water passages. Here's the email I sent Griffin.

You built a very fine radiator for my 53 Studebaker Commander. I sent you the stock radiator and you built a replacement. The car is finally on the road and we're having trouble with over heating. After much investigation the question is why is the temp only 10 degrees different between the inlet and outlet hoses on the radiator? We were unable to solve the heating issue ourselves and took the car to our favorite mechanic. He's asking if the flow through the radiator is so fast that the fluid is not able to take advantage of the air flow and therefore not cooling sufficiently. Is this possible and, if so, what can be done?

Any input is appreciated.

Regards,
John Brayton

[doug]

Do you have a thermostat installed? One story is no thermostat allows the water to flow thru the block too fast to transfer heat. I'm not sure I buy it, but who knows?

[Warren Webb]

I have seen reports of flow thru the radiator going so fast it wont cool in flathead Fords. That problem to an extent has seem to be cured with water pumps that have a redesigned impeller that direct the flow more effeciently. Prior attempts were to grind off every other ear on the impeller trying to slow down the flow. Let us know what Griffin says. Doug is right too about thermostats. They are another way that slows down flow to increase efficiency.

[Welcome]

Hi Guys>>>Any input is appreciated.
Regards,
John Brayton

Was the radiator core "painted" after you received it from Griffin? If yes, the type of paint, number of coats, etc. can affect heat exchanging efficiency.

[Skybolt]

I found about the paint being a problem when I cleaned and flushed out a radiator for my 59 flathead. I was painting everything before putting it back so it got the treatment. The engine ran so hot on the freeway it was a concern. I had painted it with Rustolium black and it looked nice but very little heat exchange. What was I thinking. So, I replaced it with another and painted this one with a paint made for the job, or similar applications. That dropped it down to normal levels. It is amazing how a clean block, good water pump and radiator can change the thought of pulling an engine because of heat related issues. Also most cooling system books relate that to high a flow is as detrimental to low a flow for heat exchange. Your pulleys might be different then they should be. If you have not cleaned out the block you still can but it will require time and some new expansion plugs and lots of water.

[John Brayton]

Hi Guys,

Happy 4th to all of you!!

Yep, I installed a 180 degree thermostat, cleaned the water passages personally, did not paint the aluminum radiator but haven't considered the pulley ratios. I was having trouble with coolant boiling and solved that issue with a 13 lb. radiator cap (I was running a 4 lb.). Someone told me that restricting the flow through the outlet hose was one solution. All input and ideas are appreciated!!

Regards,

[throwdad]

Hi John,I've heard that about (restricted flow) also,but slower flow through the block allows the coolant to absorb more heat.Faster flow= more efficient transfer.Or so I've been told recently.Dave

[StudeRich]

Having done those things mentioned with no improvement, I would look for things like slow head gasket leakage of compression into the Water Jacket, there are testers for that.
Also check that the lower Rad. Hose has a metal coil spring either built into it (Flex Hose) or inside of it to prevent collapse.

Pinching the top Radiator Hose is not going to do it.

Also we never heard that you actually warmed it up with the Rad. Cap off and used an oven thermometer to check the actual temp. of the coolant when you think it is overheated vs the Gauge, laser sensor or whatever you are basing your conclusion on.

[Welcome]

[John Brayton]

Having done those things mentioned with no improvement, I would look for things like slow head gasket leakage of compression into the Water Jacket, there are testers for that.
Also check that the lower Rad. Hose has a metal coil spring either built into it (Flex Hose) or inside of it to prevent collapse.

Pinching the top Radiator Hose is not going to do it.

Also we never heard that you actually warmed it up with the Rad. Cap off and used an oven thermometer to check the actual temp. of the coolant when you think it is overheated vs the Gauge, laser sensor or whatever you are basing your conclusion on.

We did check for head gasket leakage using high pressure air at TDC and the lower radiator hose has a coil spring. Our local mechanic, Ernesto at Bosch Automotive in Petaluma, is convinced that the car's engine air flow was not designed for a 1962 289 with power steering and AC. I'm hoping this thread will be read by someone that is successfully running this combination.

Thanks,

[John Brayton]

Often going back to the beginning and taking a new look provides the answer!!!

In that respect:
1.) Why was a new custom built radiator needed in the first place?
2.) Was there an overheating issue with the original radiator with the original engine? …with the GT engine?
3.) Did Griffin respond to your email as yet? If yes, what did they say?
4.) Do you get your original radiator back from Griffin? If yes, check for different designs of filler neck (original vs. Griffin).
5.) Has an A-C condenser and/or auxiliary transmission cooler been placed in front of the radiator?
6.) What fan/fan shroud/pulley/spacer/water pump/water manifold are now being used? In other words, from the front of the engine block to the engine side of the new radiator what has changed???
7.) There are several different design radiator filler necks used in the automotive industry over the years and many different caps specifically designed to fit them. Which cap did Griffin specify to be used with the radiator they fab’ed for you?


8.) Also, it never hurts to post a few photos; of the engine bay from different angles, fan shroud/fan blade interface, frontal view with hood open & closed …to see if anything jumps out at one of us here on the Forum.

TIA

Hi,

The custom radiator was installed as a precaution to add additional cooling for the 62 289 in a 53 coupe body.
Griffin asked some questions but has not answered my question regarding coolant moving too quickly through the radiator.
Did not get the original radiator back.
Yes, did add an AC condenser with fan.
We're using the 62 fan, the 53 fan shroud, the pulley provided by Vintage Air to run the AC, the stock water pump.

As I said to StudeRich I'm hoping someone with a 53 coupe can demonstrate that this combination is successfully working on their car. The last fellow I talked to that had over heating issues finally pulled the Studebaker engine out and replaced it with a GM.

Thanks,

[Welcome]

>>>AC. Thanks,

Ahhh ...could be that "smoking gun" you've been looking for!!! A-C condenser design, placement and even spacing between it and the radator can play a critical role.

[jnormanh]

I once installed AC on a Lotus. It did not overheat beforehand, but overheated rapidly with the AC. Even with the AC not operating it would eventually overheat. The AC condenser somewhat blocked the airflow, and in addition, preheated the incoming air before it reached the radiator. As there was not room for a larger radiator, I relocated the condenser about six inches forward of the radiator, laid it down nearly flat and cooled it with it's own electric fan which came on with the compressor.

I do recall that back when AC was a not too frequent option, adding the AC option also added a larger AC only radiator.

[PackardV8]

FWIW, there have been dozens, maybe hundreds of 289"s installed in '53-54 C/Ks and successfully cooled by the OEM radiator, so that, in and of itself is not the problem.

1. Do a search and read up on the water pump problem. There have been rebuilt water pumps sold which didn't have the correct spacing of the impeller on the shaft.
2. Reduced air flow from the A/C condensor installation can cause overheating. If it were my problem, I'd add a large, heavy duty electric fan which had a shroud which covers the entire radiator. I've use the Dodge Viper fan and it will cool just about anything. I've got one new-in-the-box fan left on the shelf. If you're interested, PM me with your radiator dimensions.
3. Do you know from building it yourself that the '62 289" is stock 8.5 compression and has the correct ignition advance? I've seen cars overheat because the timing was retarded.

jack vines

[studegary]

I had a 1953 Starliner that I installed a 1962 V8 in. I kept the original radiator. It would run hot when at idle, like in traffic. I installed the factory optional five blade fan which has bigger fan blades with more pitch. It was noisier, but it moved enough more air to solve the cooling problem.