Announcement

**sbca96** · 02-22-2006, 11:36 PM

Sorry about the focus on some of these pictures ....

The Studebaker hubs are now modified to accept the Ford rotors with the rotor lug
holes drilled out to the next SAE size - 5/8. The original Ford rotor holes being
metric these days. Here is the stock hub after separation - before mod :

The Ford rotor is 5.6 inchs in diameter where the hub needs to fit, the outside of
the hub was turned down to 5.5 inches, if you were to want to go with the Cobra
13 inch rotor from the start, I am assuming that the Cobra has more room in the
back, but this is not verified yet. I know that the rear rotor will fit the stock Stude
hub without being turned down:

I used Chrysler wheel studs, which are for a 1/2 and 3/4 ton truck from the 70's
all the way to 2003 - nice huh? Wide array of availability. Napa part number is
BK6412184, they come in boxes of 5. The only problem in using them is they are
for a larger hole. The Stude knurl is .645, but the knurl on these studs is .668. I
used a 21/32 drill to give me ~.012 of interference fit, then added Loctite. It is
pretty easy to do, with a hand drill and a vice. The studs are 1 3/4 inch long, with
a shoulder that would extend out to center the rotor.

I found that the old Stude rotor makes a perfect holder for the hub when pressing
the studs in, nice and stable. I might mention that one of the hubs on my Avanti
was a drum brake hub, with a disc pressed on the back, so I know that this will
work for either hubs. I found that the disc brake hub, accepted the stud straighter
then the drum brake hub. This is because the drum brake hub is not machined on
the back. This was easy enough to "fix", by putting the rotor on the hub, and then
tightening the wheel on to draw the rotor onto the hub. This straightened the studs
to the correct position (since the tapered hole in the rim will force the stud to
perpendicular to the hub face). I didnt have to do this with the disc brake hub.

Here is the finished hub - ready for a Ford rotor!

Here is the difference between the stud rotor and the Ford, the Stud is non-vented
and only about 3/8 thick, each half of the Ford rotor is 3/8 thick. The Stude one
worked great in its day, and still is good for a few stops, but I wouldnt trust it on
a twisty auto cross course!

Here is the dinky little bracket that holds the stock Stude caliper in place, it only
uses three of the available 6 holes, and mounts on the back side.

Compared to a Craftsmen 9/16 wrench .... so cute!

[img]http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/

**sbca96** · 02-22-2006, 11:37 PM

Well ... here is the next step in the Mustang GT brake project : test bracket. Its
always best when prototyping, to test your dimensions before going to metal. I
used some masonite to fab a rough bracket and test the design.

Here is the test bracket mounted on the spindle :

The large radius is to clear the massive wheel cylinder on the front caliper.

Here is the modified Studebaker hub mounted on the spindle:

Then we slip the Mustang rotor over the studs (with the metric holes drilled to the
next size SAE : 5/8):

And finally test fit the caliper onto the bracket to see how we did:

Turned out that I got pretty close on my first try. The only drawback was the lower
caliper bolt is right in line with the steering arm on the spindle. Not really a HUGE
problem, there are some tools that will allow the torquing of the bottom bolt, its
just nice when everything clears perfectly. Other then that, all looked great, now
to mill some 6061-T6!

Tom

**sbca96** · 02-22-2006, 11:38 PM

Masonite just doesnt compare to the look of machined aluminum. My work has a
lot of odd sized 6061-T6 scrap laying around, and even though my first choice was
to go with 7075-T6, you can not beat the price of free. Doing a comparison in the
strength of each, and steel .. the yeild and the expansion, it seemed that 7075 was
overkill anyway. But, I used 3/4 thick 6061-T6 - just in case.

Here is the drivers side bracket mounted on the spindle :

Using 3/4 inch thick aluminum gave me the opportunity to create a grease cavity
in the back side of the bracket. This is something that Studebaker used at all four
corners of the car, it is there so that if a grease seal was to fail .. the grease will
ooze harmlessly out the back .. and not end up on the drum or disc.

Here is a view from further back, sorry about all the grime and crud, I wasnt in the
mood to clean any more then I have too to check fitment. Once I swap out the GT
rotor and caliper for the big Cobra stuff, I will scrape and paint everything.

Here is the hub back on, and as you can see, designed in the bracket inner dia lets
the hub sit inside of it ... so if the grease seal fails ...

Now on to the passenger side, a mirrored bracket :

The rotor and caliper mounted :

There they be! Ofcourse the next step is to attach the Mustang brake lines to the
Studebaker frame, and for that the factory Mustang brackets didnt work, and the
factory Studebaker ones didnt either. So ... time to cut and bend and weld!

Tom

**sbca96** · 02-22-2006, 11:40 PM

After jacking the car up so that the wheels dangled, I figured that THIS would be
the "Worst Case" senario for the rubber brake hoses. I would end up trying quite
a few different locations and angles of the hose end before decideing on the best
position. The hose needed to be able to flex without rubbing anything throughout
the travel of the suspension and the turning of the wheel. What a pain! I found
that the stock Mustang brackets needed to be 90 degrees from what they were.
So I cut off the "business end" and then bought some steel stock. I wanted to use
the existing holes in the frame to bolt it down and locate it so that it wouldnt turn.

Here they are!! :

I dont know how to weld, but the supervisor of the machine shop will weld simple
parts for fast food fries. These cost me a large fry from Mc Donalds. This next pic
shows WHERE these go, I bet now it makes sense.

A close up ... pretty aint she?

And of course one for the other side as well :

The hoses dont contact anything when the wheels turn back and forth and the only
modification to the hose was an adapter fitting on the DRIVERS side to turn the
larger flare to the size Studebaker uses. Strange, but the PASS side was the same
size as Studebaker and didnt need to be changed. The wrench needed to tighten
the hose was a metric, but the flare was SAE - go figure.

My dad and I drove around and the brakes worked AMAZINGLY well. I had hoped
for an improvement, but there is NO comparison. Granted the old brakes were in
pretty bad condition, but the addition of a vented rotor will help cooling. I plan on
switching to the 13 inch Cobra brakes as soon as I get my tax refund. My dad
wants the GT parts for his Avanti.

Is anyone interested in something like this being marketed? I feel that by using
the original hubs, it really reduces waste, and doesnt require buying hard to find
rotors or using sleeves. Not to put down the great work that others have done to
keep Studes on the road, but I think there is always room for another viewpoint.

Shoot me an email if interested : sbca96@aol.com

Now I am working on the rear disc setup ... the brackets are done, and on the axle
and I am modifiying the hubs with the Dodge wheel studs. The outer dia of the hub
doesnt need to be machined down, because the inner dia of the Mustang rotor is
larger then the front and the Stude hub is smaller - perfect fit. The rotors actually
fit fine, but its recommended to have at LEAST 8 threads of contact on wheel studs
and I was at 5 with the stock length studs. I ordered the stock Mustang rear hoses
for the setup, because I didnt get those from my friend. I was happy to find that
Autozone includes the banjo bolt in the hose kit. Before you laugh, they are nice
hoses made by Wagner. Now I have to figure out the plumbing, once I get all the
wheel studs in ... had a mishap with one of the 5 studs I COULD get (damn the
StupidBowl, most the autoparts stores closed early today!), it contacted the socket
that I was using when pressing the stud in, and ruined the threads on the stud.

GRRRRRRRR!

Oh well .. gotta buy 6 tomorrow now.

I must also mention that "Bobby" the machinist thats been doing all the work for
me after hours, has been absolutely wonderful. If it wasnt for his patience with
the sometimes last minute and "on the fly" design changes this wouldnt have even
happened. Even the slight "correction" that we had to do on the rear brake caliper
brackets he didnt cringe (much) at. Thanks Bobby!! You dah Man!

Tom

**N8N** · 02-23-2006, 04:11 AM

what a great project!

just curious about those wheels, what size/offset are they, and how did they fit before you started modding the brakes (besides the interference in the front that you mentioned?) I think the new Mustang 16" wheels might look cool on a Stude but am worried that they have too much offset.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop

http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

**sbca96** · 02-23-2006, 11:27 PM

quote:Originally posted by N8N

what a great project!

Thanks!

Tom

**N8N** · 03-05-2006, 05:08 AM

I'd be interested, but I have other things on my plate right now, like getting my steering box rebuilt and keeping my glass from leaking.

Just curious, what exactly do you think are the drawbacks of the Turner system? I personally get a little nervous putting too much tire under a Stude; sounds like your brakes are able to use the meats you have to their full potential, but I would be concerned about possible frame cracking... just a thought... I'm sure you've already thought about some of this stuff and if you're OK with the tradeoff then it's all good...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop

http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

**Transtar60** · 03-05-2006, 07:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Really thought I would get more feedback/responses on this thread. One
person was interested in wheel offset? I guess everyone is satified
enough with the poor design of the Turner system, and the lack of any
options or upgrades? Talk about having the air let out of your tires.

My machinist friend wants to actually start making these in limited
production. So far I have TWO emails in regards to interest. To
make it worth while, we need to buy the aluminum in bulk, but I will
have a lot of material left over.

Tom

Tom,
Your looking at a very limited market with at least three competing designs (maybe more).
a. Many Studebaker owners are happy with their OEM brakes because of various reasons. They work for what they do with the car.
Very few of us have a need to stop repeatedly from 130mph.
b. The few who choose to change to disc brakes, are happy with current vendor offerings.
c. Bad mouthing Mr.Turners setup doesnt help. To you they might be inefficient or too heavy etc but to most folks they maybe just right.

I've met Mr Turner and bought one of his dual master cylinder mounts for my 1 ton truck. And I am happy with it.

PS.
I'm still looking for some one to construct a disc brake kit for 8E12's that use the OEM spindles. None are available now.

**gordr** · 03-05-2006, 07:37 PM

quote:Originally posted by Transtar60

Tom,
Your looking at a very limited market with at least three competing designs (maybe more).
a. Many Studebaker owners are happy with their OEM brakes because of various reasons. They work for what they do with the car.
Very few of us have a need to stop repeatedly from 130mph.
b. The few who choose to change to disc brakes, are happy with current vendor offerings.
c. Bad mouthing Mr.Turners setup doesnt help. To you they might be inefficient or too heavy etc but to most folks they maybe just right.

I've met Mr Turner and bought one of his dual master cylinder mounts for my 1 ton truck. And I am happy with it.

PS.
I'm still looking for some one to construct a disc brake kit for 8E12's that use the OEM spindles. None are available now.

Transtar60,
Thanks for saying what needed to be said, and doing it in the nicest way possible, too.[8D]

Tom, you're be commended for having tackled a tricky job, and for having so well documented his work with great pics. A couple of questions come to mind, though.

One, will aluminum stand up to the stresses in this application? I could see the bolt holes becoming ovaled out, particularly if the screws involved aren't torqued properly.

Two, on those front brake brackets, it seems to me that one could round off the leading corners without materially reducing strength, and that a couple of lightening holes could also be drilled in the rear area, again without compromising the strength of the part. I'd hazard a guess that a machined or forged steel piece with just enough section thickness to do the job safely would weigh little or nothing more than that big slab of aluminum? Look at the stock Avanti caliper bracket and compare.

Three, will stock wheels, or more traditionally styled mags fit on a Stude that uses this arrangement? I'm thinking offset here. Not all of us like the look of those modern rubber-band tires. They may be grippy on good pavement, but on rough roads or gravel they destroy your kidneys.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

**Dan White** · 03-06-2006, 05:19 AM

Tom:

I think you have a great setup here, and using up to date components is especially welcome. The only problem is that for many of us we have already made an investment in the disk setups we have. The setup on my '64 R1 Hawk is the original Dave Levesque (before he was Steeltech Solutions) which used '68 Ford LTD rotors (drop on the Stude spindles without any mods) and large Kelsey Hayes (Chrysler) calipers. Dave used up most of the '68 rotors (this was a one year only rotor) and developed the present setup. It has been on my Hawk for over 10 years and no problems what so ever. Yes it is heavy but it works great. If I was looking for a new setup I would surely be interested in what you developed. You might want to design up a display units and go to the national or one of the regional meets with you Avanti to see if you get some more interest. It would definitely be worth the time I believe.

Dan

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

**sbca96** · 03-06-2006, 02:18 PM

quote:Originally posted by Dan White

I think you have a great setup here, and using up to date components is especially welcome. The only problem is that for many of us we have already made an investment in the disk setups we have.

Thank you, with the simplicity of the design, I am really surprised
that no one had done it before now....

**Transtar60** · 03-06-2006, 02:26 PM

quote:Originally posted by sbca96
There is no sleeve that I am aware of. Perhaps you're refering to the grease track adapter??? As far as moving the bearings out , the instructions mention a second washer maybe needed. Maybe its actually moving the bearings int

Your looking at a very limited market with at least three competing designs (maybe more).

Weell Steeltech, Turner, and yours and some guy in Minnesota who evidently only sells on ebay. Gee that makes 4.

Sorry, I was only aware of two, Steeltech and Turner.

quote:Many Studebaker owners are happy with their OEM brakes because of various reasons. They work for what they do with the car. Very few of us have a need to stop repeatedly from 130mph.

Obviously they are not for everyone, I guess SDC isnt really the place
to mention any modifications, I should have known better. Considering
the very small "custom modified" section in the Turning Wheels, it is
not very accepted. Then putting on a dual master is a good idea, if
you actually intend to DRIVE your Studebaker. With the cost of OEM
parts getting into the rediculous range, I have talked to people who
have spent close to 1000 dollars rebuilding their 4 wheel drums. Why?

quote:The few who choose to change to disc brakes, are happy with current vendor offerings. Bad mouthing Mr.Turners setup doesnt help. To you they might be inefficient or too heavy etc but to most folks they maybe just right.

Yah, on top of the points I made above, they are quite heavy looking.
Then they use rotors that were used TWO years, and the Ford guys toss
in the trash when they rebuild their Mustangs past anything Concours.
The calipers warnings made me laugh, "make sure you get this one type
or they will not work, look for the bump ..." If you are going to go
to the trouble of offering an upgrade "modern disc brake", why not
pick something thats at least more common then what you are replacing?
"Modern" is a 60's rotor and a 70's caliper? If those are not valid
points worth considering when you are shelling out close to 700 bucks,
then I guess I stepped out of bounds here. I looked at Turners, then
considered Steeltechs, but then decided to make my own, using common
parts from a BROAD spectrum of years, with MANY options.

quote:I've met Mr Turner and bought one of his dual master cylinder mounts for my 1 ton truck. And I am happy with it.

I am sure that Mr Turner is a GREAT guy, I dont remember saying that
he wasnt.
You didnt but you did "dis" his product with out much explanation.

I have never met Dave at Steeltech, but my brother did and
Dave helped him fix a bad pinion bearing in the middle of the night. I
dont see what that has to do with brakes though.
Has nothing to do with brakes. Lots to do with who's selling them.

You decided to put
on a dual master cylinder? Was that OEM stuff not good enough?[

][:0]
Not for driving on roads with todays "drivers".

quote:I'm still looking for some one to construct a disc brake kit for 8E12's that use the OEM spindles. None are available now.

I threw that out there to rein

**DEEPNHOCK** · 03-06-2006, 04:51 PM

Stubborn lot, aren't we?

Thanks for posting the pic's.
I like good work.

Time is relentless, so what was great 10 years ago might be old hat today.....
But please be kind to those that actually build stuff.
It's the people, and their devotion to making, selling, servicing, and supporting Stude stuff that makes it worthwhile.
Sure, some will build their own to save a buck. It's their ride (and their neck), so let 'em have at it...
The quality of the workmanship, and the quality of the service and support that make my purchase decisions. 36 month waiting periods, with personal attacks made about me (when the builder breaks promises) is what will turn me off...in a hurry (is 36 months too long a wait to be told he hasn't got time to help you, because you posted a warning to others that he was slow????)
No rant here, because I am beyond that.
Just do good work, take no shortcuts, and be sure to share the good (and the bad) part of your projects...
That is what makes this marque a great one!
Jeff[8D]

**Dan White** · 03-06-2006, 05:11 PM

The guy on Ebay selling Stude brake kits is Steeltech.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Announcement

Stude tech 94-04 'Stang disc brake adapters return

Stude tech 94-04 'Stang disc brake adapters return

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