Need info on use of Moog CC655 Springs.

[rbigcal]

Ok, I received a set of the CC655's on Sat. and today I removed one of my old springs The Stude # on it is 1561664 which according to SI website is a standard spring for 53-66 cars excluding Avanti. That spring measures about 15.75" tall , the CC655's are only about 14" tall, but coil thickness a little larger. I want to make sure that these are going to work ok on this Wagonaire. The way the car is now the front is low enough where the tires rub inside of fenders when turning sharp.

[Captain Billy]

I installed a pair on my Wagonaire a few years back, made all the difference in ride quality without compromising the stance.
I also installed a pair of T-Bow rear leaf springs to complete the deal.

[rbigcal]

I installed a pair on my Wagonaire a few years back, made all the difference in ride quality without compromising the stance.
I also installed a pair of T-Bow rear leaf springs to complete the deal.[ATTACH=CONFIG]50060[/ATTACH]

Thanks, looks like it's pretty level. I was a little wary of them being so much shorter and didn't want to go to
all the work without knowing for sure that they would be ok on a Wagonaire. Should be a lot easier to install.

[Captain Billy]

The car isn't actually level.....it's how I mow the grass.

[rbigcal]

Finished installing them today. Looks good, almost level just a hair lower in the front. Much better than before !

[JoeHall]

Do these springs work on earlier cars? I've got a '53 C/K V8 - I'm looking at doing springs and shocks in the next few months. I already put a bigger GM front sway bar on it, but hadn't driven the car in several years, so no back-to-back comparison, but it does handle OK. Trying to work steering and suspension upgrades over the next few months.

If it has a Stude V8, the MOOGs will work perfectly on your car. Not sure, if it has a brand 'X' motor, since it would likely be lighter in the front end, and may sit too high.

No matter which Stude they are installed in, they will settle down about 1/2 inch in the first 1000-2000 miles or so.

[wittsend]

If it has a Stude V8, the MOOGs will work perfectly on your car. Not sure, if it has a brand 'X' motor, since it would likely be lighter in the front end, and may sit too high... .

My figures say if one goes to a Chevy 350 and a 700 R4 (my situation) you are removing about 175-200 pounds off the front of the car. The Moog CC665 springs are actually for the rear of certain GM, FWD cars - and an upgrade for increased capacity. Thus my thinking (hope) is that the original GM spring might have a softer characteristic for the GM powertrain that matches the results of the CC655 and the heavier Studebaker powertrain.

After some searching at the Pick A Part I found the model with the GM factory variable rate springs. Note that most of the potential parts cars do not have these variable springs. It took quite a bit of searching to find them as they seem to be quite rare (most every car of the correct model had a consistent wound spring). I now have a variable rate set and someday (don't hold your breath) I'll report back as to how they work. In the mean time I thought I'd throw this out there as a possibility to consider for those not running a Studebaker powertrain.

[Flat Ernie]

If it has a Stude V8, the MOOGs will work perfectly on your car. Not sure, if it has a brand 'X' motor, since it would likely be lighter in the front end, and may sit too high.

No matter which Stude they are installed in, they will settle down about 1/2 inch in the first 1000-2000 miles or so.

Thanks! Was hoping someone would answer before I asked again.

[Studesrule]

I have a 1954 Starliner with an LS motor and 6 speed. Engine weight is about 425 lbs, obviously less than a SBC and a lot lighter than a Stude V8. Any suggestions for a Moog spring? I currently have a Stude champion spring, one coil cut with a front end kit from Slick Street Stuff in Knoxville. The car is very low, 2" ground clearance at the front sway bar, so I need to raise it at least an inch, but still want it low (it's my thing). I think a stock Champion spring would have acceptable ground clearance. I've read a lot about Moog CC653 and CC655 but I would like to know how they compare to the Champion spring rates/load capacity (can only find info on Commander springs). The variable spring design would be desirable.

Also, anyone know the weight of a 6 cylinder engine, or automatic transmission?

Appreciate any help.

Ken Lemmon
Cedar hills, Utah

[64V-K7]

A recent article on the 169 Six said the weight with it attached to a manual transmission was 562#. Supposing a non-OD manual weighed around 90#, that gives 470#. An automatic of that era (DG150) weighed around 180-200 (the DG250 weighed ~240#), so figure around 650# for the original configuration.

[Studesrule]

Thanks for the weight info on the Studebaker 6 cylinder engine.
Questions:
1) I'm not proficient navigating this web site. I was on a thread titled "Moog CC655 springs in the February 2011 Co Operator questions" that had some interesting information. That is the thread that I think I posted on on 12/31/15 (see post above), but it shows up on this thread. (?)
2) I cannot find the thread mentioned in #1) - any suggestions?
3) Regarding Moog springs for my '54 Starliner I have the following weight estimation for my aluminum block LS1/T56 vs a Stude V8/automatic transmission:

Stude V8 - 650#
Stude auto w/torque conv - 220#
Total - 870#

Stude 6 - 470#
Stude auto - 220#
Total - 690#

LS1 w/ acc - 450#
T56 w/flywheel, clutch - 185#
Total - 645#

And for reference:
SBC - 550#
700R4 with torque conv - 225#
Total - 775#

Therefore it looks like I am 225# lighter than a Stude V8/auto (870-645=225#)
It looks like I am about 50# lighter than the Stude 6/auto.
Also, for reference, it looks like a SBC/700R4 is only about 95# lighter than the Stude (870-775=95#)

I currently have a Champion spring with one coil cut off (which increased the spring rate, but I do not know by how much), and other than being too low that seems to work. I would prefer a progressive spring, but the Moog CC655 that looks like it is recommended for a Stude V8 and it may be too high of a spring rate (?). Of course the other question is how much a CC655 would lift the car - not an easy one to answer without installing new springs.
I have found new replacement Champion springs for $570?????? (At least that is for a pair.) (That's also the ballpark for new QA1 coil overs (I am using QA1 adjustable shocks))) I can buy a pair of new Moog CC655 from RockAuto.com for less than $60.

OK, here is the question:
What is the spring rate for a '54 Stude Champion coil spring? With that I can research the Moog problem solver to see if they have a suitable spring.

I am also open to any critique of my logic/estimates, anything will be helpful.

Thanks,

Ken Lemmon
Cedar Hills, Utah

[Alan]

526128 Std.
526120 Std. Canada
526133
526129 Hd. except W-F
526122 Hd. Canada.
Which one do you have?

[Studesrule]

I have no idea. This info is stamped on the spring? Unfortunately they are currently installed. Can you give me the spring rates for the list you provided?

[Alan]

Yes, the info is stamped on the last coil that is flattened out, if you have one coil cut, you are missing one ID end. I do not have the specs for all of the ones above. The last 53-4 Champion I have worked on was in 68. If you could tell me the diameter of the spring wire and the number of active coils and the installed height I could get you in the ballpark.

[Studesrule]

The car is assembled, so I will not be able to get that kind of information until I can get things taken apart. May be Spring time.