Survivor Division at 2015 Meet

[83AVANTI]

I cannot find the original post, but someone previously posted a question regarding the Survivor Division at the 2015 Meet as Division S was listed in the Judging Divisions printed in January Turning Wheels. The Meet committee has spoken with the SDC Chief Judge and there will NOT be a Survivor Division at the St. Louis 2015 International Meet.

Efforts related to several issues such as Drive-thru judging and mechanized judging forms preclude the efforts to finalize Survivor Judging procedures.

We apologize for any confusion and will correct the Meet webpage and Turning Wheels accordingly.

Don Hart
Co-chairman - 2015 SDC International Meet

[DEEPNHOCK]

That's too bad.
Betcha a rusty donut it would be a popular class....

[nels]

I think it would be the most important class the club could have. I'm surprised it wasn't initiated years ago!

[Deaf Mute]

Trying to "prove" what is (was) right or wrong could prove to be an unending task with hard feelings everywhere. Who knows what is original on the 1963 Avanti that I purchased in 2000? I have a 1957 Oldsmobile that was purchased new by my Uncle. I got it from my Aunt in 1980 with a little over 49,000 miles on it. BUT I had to repaint the lower portion after repairing some rust-thru on the front fenders, I found out at that time that the LR door had been repaired previously & now I have had to get the power brake booster repaired and I replaced the fuel pump. A "survivor", yes, an "original" car... NOPE. I saw a really nice 1953 Commander at the South Bend meet that sure looked as claimed "un-molested"... but was it really? Who could prove the fact "beyond a reasonable doubt"?
This would be a great class to perpetuate; but I can see many unhappy owners; and is it worth that?

[studegary]

Trying to "prove" what is (was) right or wrong could prove to be an unending task with hard feelings everywhere. Who knows what is original on the 1963 Avanti that I purchased in 2000? I have a 1957 Oldsmobile that was purchased new by my Uncle. I got it from my Aunt in 1980 with a little over 49,000 miles on it. BUT I had to repaint the lower portion after repairing some rust-thru on the front fenders, I found out at that time that the LR door had been repaired previously & now I have had to get the power brake booster repaired and I replaced the fuel pump. A "survivor", yes, an "original" car... NOPE. I saw a really nice 1953 Commander at the South Bend meet that sure looked as claimed "un-molested"... but was it really? Who could prove the fact "beyond a reasonable doubt"?
This would be a great class to perpetuate; but I can see many unhappy owners; and is it worth that?

Along those lines - I bought new 1964 and 1965 Plymouths. I didn't keep either one for more than one year, but I had modified both of them early on (plus one had a serious rear end accident that was properly restored with new parts). I would think that later owners considered these cars to be original.

[stude dude]

Many long time Studebaker owners/restorers can pick original factory paint work. That is usually a good way to confirm originality.

Chris.

[nels]

I think it would be a lot easier than judging a restored class. I won't judge any more due to people's tendency to over restore cars into what they think they should look like and what is usually wrong. It is sooooo refreshing to see a totally virgin Studebaker show up at a meet. ..but, the club turns their nose up to these time capsules which can generally be read as "you need to restore that car or maybe repaint it as it has a couple door dings in it". Has anybody ever imagined what a Duesenburg really looked like when it came out of the factory versus one that some guy dumped $1,000,000 into his "wet dream" restoration expectation. It's probably too late as they have all been screwed up.

[8E45E]

It is sooooo refreshing to see a totally virgin Studebaker show up at a meet. ..but, the club turns their nose up to these time capsules which can generally be read as "you need to restore that car or maybe repaint it as it has a couple door dings in it"

Indeed, Nels! One can show it during the day, and then head to Shotgun Willies in the evening for a couple of drinks without having to worry about what will happen to it in the parking lot!

Craig

[studegary]

I think it would be a lot easier than judging a restored class. I won't judge any more due to people's tendency to over restore cars into what they think they should look like and what is usually wrong. It is sooooo refreshing to see a totally virgin Studebaker show up at a meet. ..but, the club turns their nose up to these time capsules which can generally be read as "you need to restore that car or maybe repaint it as it has a couple door dings in it". Has anybody ever imagined what a Duesenburg really looked like when it came out of the factory versus one that some guy dumped $1,000,000 into his "wet dream" restoration expectation. It's probably too late as they have all been screwed up.

I have been known to deduct points for what you call "over restore". The first that I can recall was on a 1955 Speedster where the fan shroud was a black that you could see your reflection in.
I do not like the term over restore. To restore is to bring back to an as original state. Either more or less is not restored.

[nels]

I have been known to deduct points for what you call "over restore". The first that I can recall was on a 1955 Speedster where the fan shroud was a black that you could see your reflection in.
I do not like the term over restore. To restore is to bring back to an as original state. Either more or less is not restored.

I agree with you. The last time I judged at a national meet was probably 35 years ago. Myself and another fellow had the authenticity part of the Avanti judging. George Krem had a pristine 1963 Avanti with 3000 original miles. We gave him full credit for authenticity. Then there was a 64 Avanti that was a frame off restoration. The engine compartment fiberglass and door jambs were sanded and finished to look like a mirror. He had after market salt and pepper carpet, he had rechromed the hood latch hardware etc. the car was way over done and I tried to nick him on all these points but had to compromise on some because my judging partner thought the guy was trying hard. Anyway, the restored car got first and Krem's car got second. I was totally disgusted with judging after that. How can anybody restore a car if there is no "master" to work from. If you are a coin collector and somehow found a proof set of double eagles what do you think would happen to their value if you removed them from their case and polished them on a buffing wheel until they looked like a mirror?

[SN-60]

I also feel that the 'Survivor Division' is a 'key' SDC judging class....Maybe there aren't all that many Studebakers left that would qualify to be in it,....But the ones that do qualify are to be treasured!

[2moredoors]

HPOF (historical preservation of original features) is the category that AACA calls the class. They employ a point system that determines whether a car can be considered "original". For instance a car can be repainted and still qualify however that vehicle would score fewer points than another. They allow for wear and tear. My 1964 qualifies as original even though I have repaired or replaced certain items. They took off points for a 6 blade fan as I advised them it did not come with one but was available as an option. They took points off for radial tires. For full compliance you are awarded 30 points from which deductions are made. I believe you can lose up to ten points (someone may correct me on this) before the vehicle is not considered "original". The SDC could set up its own guidelines.

[nels]

HPOF (historical preservation of original features) is the category that AACA calls the class. They employ a point system that determines whether a car can be considered "original". For instance a car can be repainted and still qualify however that vehicle would score fewer points than another. They allow for wear and tear. My 1964 qualifies as original even though I have repaired or replaced certain items. They took off points for a 6 blade fan as I advised them it did not come with one but was available as an option. They took points off for radial tires. For full compliance you are awarded 30 points from which deductions are made. I believe you can lose up to ten points (someone may correct me on this) before the vehicle is not considered "original". The SDC could set up its own guidelines.

I agree, pain't is not always the most important part of a car's originality. Sometimes it might be the cars special interior trim or engine option and the original under hood patina.

[COMMANDERPINK1]

Don
I was the one who started the subject of Survivor Judging, but it was over in the Judging section, here is the thread

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67290-Survivor-class

Thanks Tom

[Ken Stewart]

Don
I was the one who started the subject of Survivor Judging, but it was over in the Judging section, here is the thread

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67290-Survivor-class

Thanks Tom

No Survivor Class? Well then I won't bring my 39 Commander this year. I do plan on going on the Glidden tour the AACA has. I did look forward in coming but now no use. I will make other plans.