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Thread: Interesting take on today's marketing geniuses

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    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Interesting take on today's marketing geniuses

    I'm not sure if I agree wholeheartedly with this Hagerty journalist, but he does make some amusing points:

    https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...Friday_July_12

    BP
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    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

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    Chief Cat Herder showbizkid's Avatar
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    Good read.
    Clark in San Diego
    '63 Standard (F2) "Barney"
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    Golden Hawk Member
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    I didn't care much for the article, but I found the comments section to be interesting. I wasted a lot of time reading the comments. I went as far as finding mention of Packard Hawk, Golden Hawk and Avanti.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    I didn't care much for the article, but I found the comments section to be interesting. I wasted a lot of time reading the comments. I went as far as finding mention of Packard Hawk, Golden Hawk and Avanti.
    I agree, Gary. The article tried too hard to make a point that just wasn't there.

    That $3,000 car in 1965 that is pictured with 20 somethings in the ads, is a $24,395 car today https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ and STILL pictured with 20 somethings. The marketing has always appealed to the young person in those that can afford a new car...not actual young people. In 1965, actual young people were buying used cars. Young people today are buying used cars.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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    Golden Hawk Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
    I agree, Gary. The article tried too hard to make a point that just wasn't there.

    That $3,000 car in 1965 that is pictured with 20 somethings in the ads, is a $24,395 car today https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ and STILL pictured with 20 somethings. The marketing has always appealed to the young person in those that can afford a new car...not actual young people. In 1965, actual young people were buying used cars. Young people today are buying used cars.
    Not all of us. In 1965 I was in my mid-20s and buying new cars (1964, 1965 & 1966). These were our prime/first/main cars. We also bought used cars for second and hobby cars.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    Not all of us. In 1965 I was in my mid-20s and buying new cars (1964, 1965 & 1966). These were our prime/first/main cars. We also bought used cars for second and hobby cars.
    Agree. All rash generalizations are false...including this one.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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    Silver Hawk Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    Not all of us. In 1965 I was in my mid-20s and buying new cars (1964, 1965 & 1966). These were our prime/first/main cars. We also bought used cars for second and hobby cars.
    I'm with Gary, Most of the guys I knew drove used cars in their late teen years but by the early 20's (I was 22 in 1965) a large number were buying new cars. Most of us had full time jobs by then and a new car was a dream. The folks that went off to college, of course, drove used or Daddy bought them a new car but we folks that couldn't afford to go away to college, worked and/or (in my case) worked and went to a local college. The cars were generally in the $3000 range. My F-85 315 HP four speed post two door was $3030. Another friend drove a 64 GTO post 3X2 389 four speed. A couple of Impalas and several other mid-size GM cars were also bought new.

    Wages were in the $3.00/hr range as a comparison. I know we didn't represent a vast majority of folks in this age group around the country but in the mid-west at this time a new car was a major driving force to get a good job.

    Bob
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    Young people are interested in different things today. Most can tell you all about the latest iPhone, and most cannot tell a Toyota from a Ford.

    When I was a youngster, I could identify almost every car at 200 yards, tell you the make, model, year, what engine and trans it had. We cared about cars. And we saved up to buy them, even took on debt to buy a VW Beetle at $2000. Today cars are more like kitchen appliances - if it gets hot and will cook dinner, who cares what brand it is?

    Back in the day, before we could get a drivers license, many of us even "built" cars. They were typically 2"x4" frames with engines salvaged from a lawn mower, belt drive to one wheel, and crude brakes, maybe a 2x4 dragging the ground. In fact I once built a mini-Morgan trike, using the back half of a wrecked scooter with two wheels grafted on the front. It even had a centrifugal clutch and a drum brake. High tech. I could calculate gear (actually sprocket) ratios and knew how fast the "Morgan" would run at the governed 3600 rpm of the B&S.

    Yes, they were dangerous, illegal on the street, but they would go where and when we wanted. The local police often stopped us, but only sent us home with a warning. WE HAD WHEELS!

    At age 20 I ached for an XKE, but my budget was stretched to buy a new VW. At age 34 I had enough money to buy a new E-type, but bought a Toyota wagon instead.

    It took many decades, but I finally outgrew (or out aged) drooling over cars. I now drive an ancient Caddy Fleetwood (ugh, grandpa's car) and have no intention of ever buying another new car. Starting a few years ago, I no longer even change my own oil. I bought my last new car in 1988.

    Our grandchildren who are old enough to drive all have cars, and they could not care less about the mechanical components.

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
    I agree, Gary. The article tried too hard to make a point that just wasn't there.
    Many of the commenters have since mentioned vehicles the writer purposely omitted that were directed at the youth market, including Scion division of Toyota, and some current models including the Nissan Juke, Cube, Mazda Miata, and some Toyota and Subaru offerings to name a few.

    Craig

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    President Member ddub's Avatar
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    I bought my first new car when I was in my 50s. As far as I know my dad never bought a new car.
    Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
    Agree. All rash generalizations are false...including this one.
    Never use the words "everybody", "nobody", "always", and "never" (unless you're Yogi Berra).
    Skip Lackie

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddub View Post
    I bought my first new car when I was in my 50s. As far as I know my dad never bought a new car.
    My father bought his first new car, not his first car, in 1929 when he was 27. It was a Model A Ford. He bought his last new car in 1993 when he was 91. It was a Chevrolet Corsica. This was his last car. ISTR that he sold it in 2003 or 2004 when he was 101 or 102.
    Gary L.
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    Silver Hawk Member Bob Andrews's Avatar
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    I wanted to add my father’s new car purchase story (singular).

    One day when my parents were expecting me, my father saw a brand new 1960 Dodge Seneca advertised for what he thought was a very good deal. So, the next day he took the newspaper and went to the local Dodge dealer to buy one.

    So, he sits down with the salesman to place the order. The salesman asks him, would you like the six-cylinder or the V8? He asked, how much more is the V8? (Note: I don’t recall the actual numbers, so I’m going to make them up for the sake of discussion). The salesman says, say, $190. Dad says no, I’ll take whatever comes with the car in the ad. The salesman says OK and writes $62. Dad asks, what is that? The salesman says well, you have to buy one or the other. So then he asks, do you want automatic transmission? Same process – $95 for automatic, dad says no, just whatever comes with this car in the ad, OK, manual transmission, $46. Dad was starting to get annoyed then he was asked, do you want the premium white walls for $31 extra? Dad says no, just the standard black walls- $14. Dad finally gets ticked off and said, The only reason I considered buying a brand new car was it because of the great price in this ad. But you’re trying to sell me a car with no engine, transmission, or tires? Shove it! And with that, he got up and stormed out the door.

    Until the day he died, he never owned a brand new car. Being a career mechanic, he thought it was the most senseless thing he could do.

    I am now 58 years of age, and I also have never owned a brand new car. Although I did come close a couple of times, I could not see eating that huge depreciation.

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    Golden Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    We have some members here (I think) who were (are?) in the car business. Perhaps they could chime in (if they are brave enough) to offer us a bit of insight regarding NEW vs USED cars, and dealing with young buyers. By the time our family had its first car, (1953), my dad already had six children. Our rented country farm, down a dead end road, in a holler, was swallowed up by urban sprawl years ago. The car was a used '51 Pontiac woody station wagon. Not until late 1963, or early1964, did my Dad buy his first new car. It was a '63 four door Ford Fairlane sold on clearance as they were dumping inventory for the new year's cars.

    Like some have already posted, my recollection was that most of us younger folks bought USED cars, 'cause we just couldn't afford new ones. However, as I recall it in my southern region, in fierce competition, dealers & banks began to loosen, expand, and promote buying on credit, and extending car loans out longer than what I recall as a couple of years (24 months) and a hefty down payment as the standard car loan. Since such things as buying new cars was not a family tradition...I could be wrong about these terms, but that's what I remember.

    Fast forward to 1971...by that time, I had returned from Vietnam, gotten myself into college, and married. I had two vehicles, a hotrod '53 Chevy Truck (sold for books & tuition one semester), and a four-speed Falcon Sprint. My wife was terrified of a manual transmission vehicle, so we shopped for an alternative vehicle. She had her first nursing job, and I had several part time jobs while attending college full time. We ended up buying a NEW car because we could afford the PAYMENTS. At that time, we just did not have the money in the bank to make a down payment and higher monthly payments required to meet the terms on a USED car. It was MUCH MORE EASY to finance and make monthly payments for a NEW car than a USED car due to the terms of longer financing. Back then, we bought a new car because we could meet the monthly payments. I have always had great credit and that made it possible. I suspect that a lot of new cars are still sold because of the financing making the monthly "OUTLAY" more attractive than down payments and shorter terms on used cars.

    FUNNY...now that I'm able to buy NEW cars, I don't because I (like Bob Andrews) have a difficult time accepting the huge rapid depreciation. I have a Nissan Hard Body King Cab truck I bought new in 1988. It is loaded with every option available back then. I offered it to my grandson a couple of months ago. If someone had given me the same kind of offer when I was his age (18)...I would have been all over the vehicle, day & night, cleaning it up, tinkering, and making it mine! Although he lives only seven miles away...he hasn't showed up to evaluate the truck. But, he probably has worn out another computer gaming chair and joystick by now.
    John Clary
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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    How many actually had to BUY a new car, if they were in sales & promotion, or some other occupation which required a vehicle from an early age?

    My dad's first brand new car that he purchased on his own was a 1955 Buick Special two door hardtop, which he only kept a few years, and got to drive a brand new Ford when he sold it. He never actually had to pay out of pocket for a brand new car again until 1988 when he bought a brand new Cadillac. They were either supplied by the company he worked for at the time, and when he went into business for himself, he either leased, or purchased it through his business and expensed it. And I do know of many who never actually had to buy a new car, but always got the use of one while working in a position where a vehicle was required.

    Craig

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    Speedster Member sasquatch's Avatar
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    In 1966 I bought my first new car, a Chevy Impala with a 327 and a four speed. I was twenty years old. Kept it for about a year and traded it for a 1965 Olds 88 (lost my good paying job and couldn't afford the payments on the Chevy). My next new car was a 1978 Toyota. I've had new cars ever since, along with a lot of used cars.
    Rick
    Kingman, AZ

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    President Member j.byrd's Avatar
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    I'm enjoying this thread, and found Bob P's link rather interesting. SO, here is my take on buying used vs. new. In 1965 right after high school graduation, Dad signed for me to buy a 56 Chevy wagon on a 90 day note. It was $350.00. Right before it was paid off, it used an entire case of oil between Memphis and Nashville, and a bit more than that on the way to our home in Clinton, TN. Nope, not because of this teenager driving, Dad was using it as I had surgery and was using his automatic car. We escorted wide loads around the south, and when he finally got home, we went across the street to our local used car dealer, Fox Motors, and he told me to pick out another car. The 56 had been going through transmissions,oil, rear wheel bearings, and one complete rear end, and I wanted another Chevy. That was my 2nd mistake...got a 64 Bel Air automatic ( 283 two barrel with a "Powerslide" ), that lasted all of 31 days. It had cost me a little over $1900.00. When I finally took all the down time and expence's I could stand, I told Dad I was getting rid of it and wanting to trade for a 63 1/2 Falcon Futura with a 4 speed and a 260 engine. He did NOT like that idea, but finally relented, so I got my 1st Ford. (it had been advertised for $1699.00, so I "lost" a bit). After 160,000 trouble free miles with minimum oil use and twice the gas mileage of the Chevy's, I was really hooked.

    Now, as I said, "after 160,000 miles",
    this is because I found a 271 horse hi-po engine for sale for $60.00 and bought it, put it in the Falcon, had the car painted, put on 14 inch wheels with Goodyear Blue Streak tires, glass packs, new shocks, and after slipping off to the races one night, totaled it courtesy of a 57 Plymouth turning across in front of me. $325.00 later, I had a little 61 Falcon Ranchero that I took the 6 cylinder automatic out of and put in all the other parts I could out of the 63. One of my best moments ever, as it ran like a "scaulded dog" as we say in the south, got fabulous mileage, and was lighter which led to LOTS of race wins when not being just a daily driver and work truck. Two years later, after marrying, we moved to Texas in 1968 in it, used it there for two years, and came back to TN, AL and finally took that engine out and put in 3 more vehicles over the years. Superb little engines and trannys.

    Now to the new car part of the story. While in Texas, a Hot Rod magazine came out advertising the new Fairlane Cobra and Mustang Cobra Jets with the 428 ram air engines. We jumped in the Ranchero, went down to Texas Motors Ford and tried out a Boss 302, a Boss 429, a CJ Mustang, and then a CJ Fairlane. My wife and I both liked it the best, and after filling out the order and waiting around 30 days, had our 1st new car. ( $3558.39 after discounts/ negotiating, etc., and a $94.00 payment for 36 months after my down payment....yes, I still have all my paperwork and window stickers, ha ! ) After driving it to work for the 1st week, I got one of my pals to drive it and I drove the Ranchero in a couple of drag races on Jacksboro Hwy right outside of Ft. Worth. I beat that "expensive" new car, so we swapped, then he beat me twice, so we went home. As I was already 20 by now, and "real" mature, ha !, I told my wife that we had wasted a lot of money, but we'd keep the Fairlane anyway as it was prettier, roomier, and quite a bit more comfortable.... Those days, ah, what a fun time. I have had a lot of new and used cars and trucks since those days, hate the depreciation, but love the comfortable feeling of my wife having something "more reliable" and safer. If I had cubic dollars today, I would still buy one of the used cars of my dreams or build the wildest 1961 Ranchero to ever roam the streets, ha ! Keep up the stories guys, this is fun !

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    Golden Hawk Member
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    To give an input to John Clary's query - I sold used cars for many dealerships. They were sold to all ages, some as only cars and some as second cars. When I started selling new cars full time (50 hours per week), in the 1980s, I worked for an old dealership - same family since 1929. The used cars went to all sorts, but the vast majority of new cars were sold to those 60s to 80s years old. I think this reflected the dealership's customer base, not the norm.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
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    President Member j.byrd's Avatar
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    studegary, that is probably a true fact for more than just your area. Most of the new cars sold when I was young in our little East Tennessee city were to older folks, very few young folks were able. Now the difference was that probably 99% of us that left town and got decent jobs immediately bought a new car as soon as possible...... and came back in it to show it off on our visits "home".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Andrews View Post
    I am now 58 years of age, and I also have never owned a brand new car. Although I did come close a couple of times, I could not see eating that huge depreciation.
    There may be some general trends on this issue, but clearly there are lots of individual exceptions. Like Bob, I have never owned a brand-new car (and at my age, it now seems unlikely that I ever will). I used to refuse to own anything that I couldn't fix myself, but the advent of microprocessor-controlled fuel injection and other parameters has made that approach moot. Still, I haven't purchased a vehicle in 20 years, and continue to drive a 95 GMC pickup.

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