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Thread: I need a reality check!

  1. #1
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    I need a reality check!

    Albert Ross, a/k/a my 1963 R1092 R2/Powershift car has been a challenge, but I've won. But I am tired. Is Hagerty's value of $16,000 realistic for a #4 car? That's a bit less than I have in it, but that's the way things go.

    Here is a quick synopsis of Albert: Original RS 1038 R2, which was just rebuilt completely. Supercharger works fine. Hog troughs and frame are solid. Completely new/remanufactured brakes, from the pedal to the disc/drums, with a Turner conversion on the front. Steering is good, exhaust is old but solid, glass is good. I finally overcame all the crap that comes with a car that was poorly stored for 20+ years. Finally, everything works as it should, and it drives well. Well, there is no antenna, so the radio is unknown and the clock...it of course does not work. Glass is all good, and very little fiberglass work to be done.

    Here is where it gets ugly like a moldy original Shakespeare manuscript: The paint SUCKS! But really awful paint isn't any more expensive to repair than tired paint. Chrome is straight, but worn and pitted. Maybe OK for a driver if you aren't picky. The car sat for years outside, filled with water, and got really moldy inside. I stripped most of it, scrubbed the heck out of it, but everything needs re-doing. Dash pad is passable, but not perfect.

    Here is my conundrum: It's a great driver, ready to go if you are blind, but as butt-ugly as it can be. It does not present well, yet everything it needs probably costs no more than if it just looked tired.

    Is the Hagerty's value reasonable? How can I present this car for sale better than any photos would suggest? What venue might be best to present it?
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  2. #2
    Silver Hawk Member
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    I can't speak to value but you might contact a local detailer to see if the paint can be improved. I'm still a fan of ebay with an ad like Matt or Dick S. can author. You can set a reserve and the cost if it doesn't sell is not bad. I'm starting to like BaT but I'd start with the Big Dog.

    Bob
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  3. #3
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    Ron, I am lost...what is the link between R1092 (remember my money pit is R1089) and RS1038? Sherm / Green Bay 63R1089

  4. #4
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob, but when white paint us down to speckled primer, even krylon is a huge improvement. It's way beyond detailing.
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  5. #5
    President Member Xcalibur's Avatar
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    It is what it is. Present it honestly and you are more apt to sell it (from my experience) than trying, without much success from the sound of it, to make it "appear" as something most can readily see that it's not. Then, move on. Just my thoughts, and all th best.

  6. #6
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    It is very hard to guess these values without seeing them, but as you very honestly described it, unless that Interior is as New, I just do not see it much over $10,000.00 Sadly.

    Maybe a cheaper paint job and driving it 5 to 10 years, is the best way to get the most out of what you have spent.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




  7. #7
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firestoper 25 View Post
    Ron, I am lost...what is the link between R1092 (remember my money pit is R1089) and RS1038? Sherm / Green Bay 63R1089
    I think RS1038 is just the R2 ENGINE Number.

  8. #8
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    It is very hard to guess these values without seeing them, but as you very honestly described it, unless that Interior is as New, I just do not see it much over $10,000.00 Sadly.

    Maybe a cheaper paint job and driving it 5 to 10 years, is the best way to get the most out of what you have spent.
    I agree. It's surprising how people today can't seem to overlook bad paint on an otherwise good car. That said, a paint job these days can cost as much as you are willing to pay, a $400 Earl Scheib paint jpb can go a long way when it comes to curb appeal. Ask any woman.

  9. #9
    Silver Hawk Member Bob Andrews's Avatar
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    I deal with this all the time in my line of work. But it is especially a problem with the less known/popular brands like Studebaker, Nash, etc. There is still a huge contingent of people who think any Studebaker is rare just because you don’t see them around that much. More so, they think rarity translates to value.

    The reality is, rarity does not always translate to value; sometimes, far from it. This is what you run into with Studebaker. The attraction to most postwar Studebakers is there weirdness and quirkiness, but most of all they’re relatively low in value as a group. That’s a great thing to get people into the hobby. The problem is, that does not translate to resale value. I sometimes have the unenviable task of breaking this news to somebody who thinks they have found a gold mine coming across one of these cars.

    Here’s the good news – in the grand scheme of things, you’re not talking about a super large sum of money. I have no idea what you paid or what you have spent on the car. But we have customers every day spend more than what the resale value of their vehicle is for the love of the car and the preservation of history. It could be worse. At Barrett Jackson in January there was a guy who brought a first generation Camaro convertible with the receipts for over $140,000 in restoration costs. He chose to bring it to Scottsdale and sell it at no reserve. Sale price? $63,000. If you watch a replay of the auction you can see the guy turn white and look ill and turn to the auctioneer and try to tell him, no, I can’t sell it for that, But he had chosen to sell it no reserve. I felt bad for that guy. But this happens every day in the hobby.

    Look at it this way- you got to put your hands on a piece of Automotive history, and bring it back to life. Enjoy it until you’re done with it, then move it on for what the market will give; and chalk up any loss as your contribution to the hobby.

  10. #10
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensherb View Post
    I agree. It's surprising how people today can't seem to overlook bad paint on an otherwise good car. That said, a paint job these days can cost as much as you are willing to pay, a $400 Earl Scheib paint jpb can go a long way when it comes to curb appeal. Ask any woman.
    Yeah, but if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it right. If I want to go cheap, I'll go to Sherwin Willams
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  11. #11
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    I agree with you Bob, I did not buy it to make money, but now that I'm done, I'm trying to minimize my losses. Even though the engine rebuild cost more that it added to value, it should be easier to sell than it would with low oil pressure.
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  12. #12
    Silver Hawk Member Bob Andrews's Avatar
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    Definitely. Really, that’s the best you can do.

    My goal for the rest of my life is to work on and promote this rolling artwork and preserve our Automotive heritage anyway I can. I sometimes have people come to me for advice that are looking to take their first step in to the hobby; whether it’s for a specific car that is their dream car, or just wanting an older car for enjoying the experience. I always tell them that there is a series of questions they need to answer first; without going into all of it, one of the main questions is, how concerned are you with buying an investment that will make you money in the end? That can be done-Then you’re talking about a very expensive piece that requires meticulous storage and care then you’re talking about a very expensive piece that requires meticulous storage and care... all costs money. And even with a so-called blue-chip investment vehicle, there are no guarantees.

    My real love is for these lower-level cars, the kind I grew up working on with my father. Unfortunately, the numbers do not always support them. The sad part is, most people are assuming they will, and end up bitterly disappointed when they get that reality check…

  13. #13
    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Not cool at all. Content deleted.

    -- Clark Novak
    Last edited by showbizkid; 05-21-2019 at 04:40 PM.

  14. #14
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    Though I am not a fan of the look, would a quick primer job be worth money and effort to make the car more presentable? Not to hide anything, but the car is white with lots of big chips and scratches down to the original red primer, so it really looks like a measles outbreak.
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  15. #15
    Silver Hawk Member Bob Andrews's Avatar
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    Tough call. Personally, when I’m buying, I prefer not to see it. It’s just another layer that will need to be removed. And it seems more honest to me as a buyer.

  16. #16
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    I agree with Bob....a cheap coat of primer just adds work & expense to the next owner. A "good" prep & primer would be a different story. I sometimes disagree with Bob's opinions, but I think he is 100% on target with his advice on this topic.
    Mike Sal

  17. #17
    Golden Hawk Member
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    I vote against shooting it with primer. I would rather see what is there than not know what has been covered by the primer.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  18. #18
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    X3 on primer. Anytime I see a car for sale in primer, I assume the worst. Would rather see a "what you see is what you get" car any day.

    Did you get the "seems to lean out under boost" issue resolved?

    If if falls on its face during a test drive, that certainly won't help sell it.

  19. #19
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone on nixing the primer idea. I didn't like it either, so will save time and money there. I drive it again yesterday, and still don't have that resolved, but the more I drive it, the more I am leaning towards the vacuum advance despite it being new. Do R1 and R2 dizzys use the same vacuum can? I also used 3/4 of a tank of non-ethanol premium ((ouch!) in only 50 miles, so I definitly need to look at the carb again too.
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  20. #20
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    The R1 and R2's have very different Vacuum Advances, due to many things like: initial advance: 4 Degrees vs 24 Degrees.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




  21. #21
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    I'll see what I have on my receipt, I'm pretty sure Dave Theibault knew it was for an R2. If I can't find it for sure, how do I identify it?
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

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