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SBC Engine and trans into 2R16A

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  • #16
    Given that I am using a stock Chevy manifold, I did just that, Gil. I have this engine mocked up at 4 degrees. The carb flange is at the same angle as the chassis.
    After I get all the rear bracketry drilled and nuts welded on the back sides, I will mock it up one more time, check level, and make a front cross member.

    Lost much of last weekend because the Argon regulator on my MIG welder went south. Ended up borrowing one from a friend, but still wasted a lot of time.

    Got my new one today, so should be good to go. Took a bunch of pics yesterday, but.... while "scrolling" through them on the computer, realized at the last one, that I was actually hitting "delete" instead of the scroll arrow. I do have some pics of the modified rear cross member and one of the two plates that I am bolting to the frame. I know it would drive some guys crazy to see how uneven the metal pieces are, but like I said, I just fit a bunch of scrap pieces, tacked everything in place them pulled them off and fully welded. The little box plates are lap welded on both sides, so there is not chance they will break.

    Maybe will get some more this evening.Click image for larger version

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    • #17
      Took it all apart, drilled new holes in the brackets 1/2 inch forward. Had to reinforce a couple because there were right by the edge. Welded nuts on the back side to make final assembly easier. I am 99% certain I am going to have to drop this rear cross member down a bit to get the engine and trans in together. I realize I did not have to do so to get the old engine back, but this bell housing is considerably bigger to accommodate a 13 inch clutch. There is an adapter between the bell housing and the engine to accommodate this huge bell housing.

      Feeling better about the project today. The HEI distributor even fits! Hopefully I can fab a front cross member and solve the clutch linkage puzzle.

      Comment


      • #18
        Hope you are able to post some pics of your work, it would really be nice!!

        Treblig

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        • #19
          Click image for larger version

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          OT: But what kind of car is that?
          1963 Champ "Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
          1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
          1951 Land Cruiser "Bunnie Ketcher" only 47M miles!
          1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case
          1947 Champion "Sally"- basket case
          1941 Commander Land Cruiser "Ursula"- basket case

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          • #20
            I almost cropped it out. Figured I would get some questions. Everyone thinks it is a Rolls. It isn't. It is a Vanden Plas Princess, also referred to as a Sheerline.
            Made from 54 to 65 in the UK. Vandan Plas built coach work for Rolls and Bentley, and decided to try building their own limo after the war. It is built on an Austin truck chassis with an Austin truck straight six, and Austin 4 speed manual trans (right hand drive four speed column shift was surprising easy to get used to). Front fenders and bumpers are steel. The rest of the panels are all hand formed aluminum alloy. No stamped panels. The first few years it was marketed as an Austin Princess. By 63 or 64, the word "Austin" was dropped completely from any badging on the car as well as in the marketing material, workshop manual and owner's manual. It is a fun car, even if a bit antiquated, with mostly prewar technology. We have friends come up from "the city" (we live in the downtown historic area of Guthrie, OK) and we take them to dinner in the limo.

            I really like the lines on it. A good friend has a 50's Rolls, and while it looks OK, the Princess has more room and looks much more regal to me. During its heyday, it was the choice of British royalty over the Rolls.

            Click image for larger version

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            • #21
              As far as the clutch pivot arm is concerned, All you need to do is make sure that the arm "bell crank" (from the frame to the bell housing) is parallel to the ground and perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the frame. It should work fine. If you need any Chevy exhaust manifolds I collect them and sell them. Don't know if it would be worth it with shipping costs??? I can post pics.

              treblig

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              • #22
                Took some pics of the valve cover clearance. Before moving the engine forward ½ inch, the passenger side was just hitting the firewall. I didn’t want to ding the wall.
                Second pic shows I now have room for an HEI distributor.

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                Also, using the over the top manifold, I have plenty of room around the steering box.
                And, tried to get a shot of the home made bracket on the passenger side that the rear cross member bolts to. Can’t see it that well, so maybe I can remember to take a pic next time the cross member is out.

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                Was going to go metal shopping for something suitable to make the front cross member. I have some ¼ by 4 inch square tubing left over from another project. Way overkill for a cross member, but WTH, I have it on hand. It is really heavy stuff, being ¼ thick walled.

                First job was to cut out the front part of each side of the K member. Reciprocating saw worked fine for that. Then I had to remove the four rivets holding it to the front frame cross member. Those rivets are really tough to get out. Ground the heads down on the first two with a 4 inch angle grinder (OK, with the worn out disc, it is closer to 3.5 inch now. Anyway, I hate using that thing without a guard, but seems like most jobs I use it on require guard removal. Even after the head is off, I cannot punch them out without first drilling them most of the way through.

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                Ground the heads of the second two with the little air powered die grinder. I like it better, as I don’t have to worry about losing a digit, and it doesn’t throw sparks… just lots of little metal shavings. Drilled them and punched ‘em out.

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                Here is a pic of the engine with the front saddle installed. As you can see it sets down really low. I made a front cross member for one of these set ups in 1978 when I installed a tall deck 427 in the Church bus (converted school bus). We used 3 or 4 inch angle iron, and the job went pretty well. As mentioned above, I decided to use what I had on hand. Did I mention that 4 inch tubing is heavy?
                Attached Files

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                • #23
                  When I started this job, I bought all new Studebaker engine mounts (thanks Rich) HOPING I could just rework the engine brackets and use the old mount set up. Well, since I already have them, I decided to use the rear (larger) set of rubber mounts on the front. Those round holes in the saddle used to be oval. I used the die grinder and made them round. They don’t compress much. I taped them to the saddle before fitting my home made engine cross member.


                  I don’t have a chop saw, but do have a big honking gas powered saw for concrete that accepts a metal cutting blade. I mocked up the xmember in cardboard, measured all the angles and cut up a piece of tubing free hand. I was really afraid I would be grinding all day tomorrow, but to my surprise, it fit on the first try. I partially welded (in case I had to undo something) the main part of the member, then set it in place with a floor jack under it. It is down pretty low, but is still higher than the front axle. I am making it removable, so if I get industrious, perhaps I will cut off the bottom inch or so, and weld a plat in place. The way I feel tonight, it isn’t gonna happen. Man, this was so much easier in 1978.


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                  Last edited by Lynn; 09-19-2016, 04:14 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Lynn View Post
                    When I started this job, I bought all new Studebaker engine mounts (thanks Rich) HOPING I could just reword the engine brackets and use the old mount set up. Well, since I already have them, I decided to use the rear (larger) set of rubber mounts on the front. Those round holes in the saddle used to be oval. I used the die grinder and made them round. They don’t compress much. I taped them to the saddle before fitting my home made engine cross member.


                    I don’t have a chop saw, but do have a big honking gas powered saw for concrete that accepts a metal cutting blade. I mocked up the xmember in cardboard, measured all the angles and cut up a piece of tubing free hand. I was really afraid I would be grinding all day tomorrow, but to my surprise, it fit on the first try. I partially welded (in case I had to undo something) the main part of the member, then set it in place with a floor jack under it. It is down pretty low, but is still higher than the front axle. I am making it removable, so if I get industrious, perhaps I will cut off the bottom inch or so, and weld a plat in place. The way I feel tonight, it isn’t gonna happen. Man, this was so much easier in 1978.


                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]58010[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]58011[/ATTACH]

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]58013[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]58015[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]58016[/ATTACH]

                    Not bad....not bad at all! It must have been interesting figuring out the angles on both ends of the cross member pieces??? Are you able to remove and reinstall the distributor?? I know that on some hot rods I've built that the distributor fits/clears against the firewall but will sometimes hit as you remove it because of the engine tilt and the length of the distributor shaft. After getting the engine located front to back and have the engine angle set I deliberately remove the distributor completely and reinstall just to make sure that it's possible.

                    treblig

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                    • #25
                      Yea, the angles were interesting. That saddle is NOT symmetrical.

                      Have to remove the cap first, but yes, the distributor comes in and out just fine.
                      I would be OK if I had to use a small body, but I have a couple of HEI's and they are so trouble free, I wanted to use it. Every once in a great while a module goes bad (I have personally never had a failure), but it is pretty easy to carry a spare.

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                      • #26
                        Promised a couple pics of the rh rear cross member frame bracket. Hard to see it in these pics, but here you go. May be able to get one more with the cross member out if I have to lower it to get the engine and trans in as a unit.

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                        The first couple times I was fitting it, I was having to hold nuts on the back side, (or slide the bolts in from the back side) which was a real pain. So I welded the nuts in place.

                        Got the front cross member built and installed. Engine is indeed 4 degrees canted relative to the chassis. For those who have done fabrication, you know it is never quite as easy in real life as it was on paper.
                        Here are pics of it booger welded up sitting on the work mate.

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                        I tack welded it and cut the tack welds three times before getting it right. Here it is installed. Still need to put in some 3/8 fine thread bolts and nuts (ran out… need to pick some up from the hardware store tomorrow) but it is in the final resting place.

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                        I started to drill 1 ¼ inch holes in the bottom so I could put nuts on the bolts holding the front motor mounts. My hole saw had an off center guide bit, and wasn’t doing much cutting. May pick up another one. Anyone have a rec for a GOOD hole saw for metal. The tubing is ¼ inch thick, so for now, I just threaded the upper hole and torqued to 35 pounds. They didn’t strip, but I would feel safer using nuts designed for the job.

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                        Finally, with the engine bolted up. BTW, other than the oil pan, nothing on this engine is going to be in the final build. These were just spare parts I had laying around for the mock up. The new block has been machined, bored .020 slightly decked, and is ready for first assy to check crank clearances, etc. Then the rotating assy will be balanced.

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                        Now it is on to fabbing clutch linkage. I cut off about two inches from the Studebaker cross shaft. Shaft measures exactly ¾ inch, so it should be easy to find a bronze bushing and build a support for the inside end. The outside end is supported by a bronze bushing as well. I cut a ¾ inch hole in a 4 inch by 2 inch piece of ¼ inch steel to use for the first leg of the bell crank set up. It is a tight slip fit over the cross shaft. You can see it in these two pics. That lever will move forward when the clutch pedal is pushed in. Should just need to fab a fairly simple bell crank on the engine (using the factory ball stud pivot and another frame mounted ball stud pivot) that will reverse the direction of the force. Yes, I do realize that the pivot arm may interfere with the brake pedal travel. I have plenty of room to move it out away from the pedal.

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                        Thinking back on all my engine swaps, I don’t remember ever having to fab clutch linkage, so if any of you guru’s have pointers before I get in too deep, I am all ears.
                        Last edited by Lynn; 09-05-2016, 06:13 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Looking better everyday. I know exactly how much work you're putting into your car and I'm sure everyone appreciates the pics!!!

                          AS PER YOUR REQUEST>>>>>>>Here are some pics of some of the GM manifolds I've collected over the years. I don't ever advertise them for sale because I never know when I'm going to need one for one of my hot rods. I get them completely sand blasted, then check them for cracks, then primer with high heat paint then top coat with high heat paint. If I sell any at all I sell them for $105 a pair plus shipping.





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                          I also sell Mopar small block manifolds, the ones that go on 340 engines.


                          treblig

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                          • #28
                            Thanks for the pics Gil. I already have each of those styles. Think I have decided which to use for now. May look kind of silly, but should be functional.
                            I THINK 55-56 chevy manifolds would work, but the ports and pipes are so small, they might choke things down too much.Click image for larger version

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                            Last edited by Lynn; 09-05-2016, 07:24 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Got the exhaust figured out.

                              Also, FINALLY got the clutch linkage figured out. Spent an entire evening (euphemism for started at 6 and quit about 11) last week building a really complex bracket system to relocated the engine side bell crank pivot. Had the engine out when I was building it and went way overboard. Fortunately, before i welded everything up, I put the engine back in to discover I had interference issues.

                              Didn't work on it for a few days (sometimes you just need to THINK). Sherri and I went to an Estate auction Sat. (didn't get much, mostly a bust) so no work Sat.

                              I had almost given up on the mechanical clutch linkage, and was pricing out different hydraulic set ups, but everything had a draw back. Besides, I had plenty of brackets and pieces to fab something. Anyway, gave it one more shot yesterday and came up with a very simple solution. Will post some pics when I take it all apart and do the final fit.

                              I believe i want to use some spherical rod ends for linkage. I have never used them, but looks like the way to go. Anyone like or dislike any particular brands?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                If you are talking Heim joints, like these.



                                I've had good luck with both Speedway and Summit Racing. If you need spacers, order the ones that compliment the ends. They are tapered to let the joint move throught out it's full motion.

                                Bob

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