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Rear Backing Plate- E-brake 'support' bolts all broke off; replacements?? (welded in)

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  • Brakes: Rear Backing Plate- E-brake 'support' bolts all broke off; replacements?? (welded in)

    Hi, removed my rear brake backing plates this week, (57 Golden Hawk) and all four of the little bolts holding the Emergency-Brake "guide" plate broke off. Definitely NOT one of the places Stude used hardened bolts, one twist and they each snapped off like butter.
    They are apparently part of the backing plate, welded on (inside), but have a part number 533907 (listed as 'welded') and SI doesn't have them.

    I assume other people have had these snap off; any reason you can't just grind off that old weld, grind the hex head down (if clearance issues inside, haven't checked photos yet to see) on a set of new bolts, and weld THEM in?

    in other words, anything special about those that required the unusual step of welding in the first place? (clearance is all I can think of; need flat-head but also need to be able to tighten them obviously).

    Thanks!
    BarryClick image for larger version

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  • #2
    I would guess they were tack welded to make the addition of the guide easy without needing to hold the head in place while attaching the nuts. If you were removing them to sand blast the plates I would think any grade 5 bolt would do that fits, to put back on, or even a spot weld since I doubt they'll ever be removed again, they just "aim" the cable end to enter the business side of the backing plate .

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    • #3
      they definitely are a "flat squashed weld", not a 'head' that is tack-welded. I see they list an option as a self-tapping screw, so the designers didn't want anything sticking up inside that backing plate for some reason......, thus my guess there is something that rides real close to them and needs clearance. ???? I took all the internal brake parts a few years ago, so have no reference at the moment, need to look up some photos, maybe the catalog will show (or partially reassemble one and SEE how close 'something' comes to those bolt heads).
      Originally posted by karterfred88 View Post
      I would guess they were tack welded to make the addition of the guide easy without needing to hold the head in place while attaching the nuts. If you were removing them to sand blast the plates I would think any grade 5 bolt would do that fits, to put back on, or even a spot weld since I doubt they'll ever be removed again, they just "aim" the cable end to enter the business side of the backing plate .

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      • #4
        Maybe it is a feature of the "Land of true winter season," and the snow salt exposure, but perhaps, also a "step too far." I have scraped, blasted, cleaned, and painted many rusted, corroded, and dirty under the car areas and components. However, I don't recall ever needing to remove that cable guide. This is no big criticism to your efforts, but just my observation and experience. One car I did, was sold new in your state. There were some parts of the chassis, and body, rusted so badly, I had to absolutely fabricate from new metal. However, even on that one, removing those pieces were not necessary.

        Of course, even if yours were not "necessary," as long as you make the effort, clean it up great, and get it back together (as good or better than new) to your peace of mind and satisfaction...I applaud the dedication, and your work.
        John Clary
        Greer, SC

        SDC member since 1975

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        • #5
          doggone it! I never even tried pulling the cables out WITHOUT removing those; just thought I better get those nuts off before I removed the backing plate because they were awfully rusted and would probably take some good arm strength.
          No wonder no-one sells them, no-one else takes them off and breaks them! Sigh! Well, live and learn. I'll have to replicate the originals best I can (bolts and flat welds, that is) and put them back on. Not thinking clearly I guess when you've been working on your knees all afternoon in a 100% humidity 90F day (couldn't hardly keep the hammer in my hand pounding on shackle bushing, kept sweating up the handle to the point of dripping!)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bsrosell View Post
            doggone it! I never even tried pulling the cables out WITHOUT removing those; just thought I better get those nuts off before I removed the backing plate because they were awfully rusted and would probably take some good arm strength.
            No wonder no-one sells them, no-one else takes them off and breaks them! Sigh! Well, live and learn. I'll have to replicate the originals best I can (bolts and flat welds, that is) and put them back on. Not thinking clearly I guess when you've been working on your knees all afternoon in a 100% humidity 90F day (couldn't hardly keep the hammer in my hand pounding on shackle bushing, kept sweating up the handle to the point of dripping!)
            Won't be your first or last mistake, we've all been there. Getting those "fingers" to compress on the housing end can be a bear, many times you'll break one or more off extracting it, Good news is all the replacement cables have new ones installed already.

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            • #7
              The '59-'64 Chassis Parts Catalog shows the retainer held by 2 self tapping screws on each side.
              Maybe you can just Drive those Studs out and install screws.
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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              • #8
                don't ever use grade 5 bolts in a car.... only grade 8 will do.

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                • #9
                  I can pretty well guarantee that 1/4-20 "weld" bolts such as this are not Grade 8. And Grade 8 is certainly not needed in this application. In this instance, I would grind off the welded-in heads of the broken bolts, and obtain and weld in a pair of 1/4-20 cap screws. Since true "weld bolts" as used by the factory can be hard to find in hardware stores, and there really isn't a clearance issue on the inside at that location.
                  Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                  • #10
                    That's something new to me. Every Lark I have worked on had two removable screws. I have both backing plates off of my 64 right now to do the flanged axle conversion so I had to remove both bolts to get the plates off. You could either repair your plates or get different ones off a V8 Lark or GT Hawk.

                    Nick
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by 61Lark; 08-13-2016, 06:04 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 61Lark View Post
                      That's something new to me. Every Lark I have worked on had two removable screws. I have both backing plates off of my 64 right now to do the flanged axle conversion so I had to remove both bolts to get the plates off. You could either repair your plates or get different ones off a V8 Lark or GT Hawk.

                      Nick
                      I agree with Nick, all the e-brake cable retainers that I have seen have had those small self-tapping type screws. This is a new one on me.
                      Paul
                      Winston-Salem, NC
                      Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by r1lark View Post
                        I agree with Nick, all the e-brake cable retainers that I have seen have had those small self-tapping type screws. This is a new one on me.
                        I recently parted out a derelict '56 Champion, and it had the weld bolts for retaining the parking brake cable ends. I was able to undo the nuts on them.
                        Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                        • #13
                          Barry
                          Just contact Fred Koehler or Jim Bahr. There just across the river from you and I'm sure they have the parts you need.
                          Klif
                          55 Speedster/Street Machine
                          63 Avanti R2
                          64 Convertible R1

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