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  • Speedo / Tach / Gauges: No Tach after engine swap?

    Swapped an R1 into my 64 hawk and got it running last night but my tach is inop now. I used the prestolite dual point distributor that was from the r1 but i put a pertronix conversion kit in it with a matching coil. Original distributor from the car was a delco and tach worked fine before I swapped everything. I did put a temporary power to an edelbrock with electric choke off the power side of the coil to see if it would work. I was having issues with the original carter afb and swapped it with the edelbrock. Could I have done something to the sender or tach by running the choke off the cool power? Or is it the pertronix kit causing it not to work?

  • #2
    Did you replace the Pink IGN coil wire with a new 12 v circuit?
    64 GT Hawk (K7)
    1970 Avanti (R3)

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    • #3
      The R motors use a different sending unit and tach. The non-R tach uses a module inside the distributor and has a square sending unit. IIRC, the tachs require different signals to work. The R tach uses a large round can under the dash. I think you will need the R type sending unit and R style tach to make it work.

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      • #4
        This is a little bit off of the subject. Does anyone know what the difference; if any between the Avanti and the GT Hawk tach. Also what is the difference electronically between the rectangular and the round sender.

        The only visible difference between a normal GT and a GT with a R1 engine is that one has a dual point distributor and the other does not.
        As for why the tach does not work; I have used both the Chrysler and the Malory distributor in my Avanti and both times the tach worked as it did with the dual point.
        Ron

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        • #5
          I expect the issue is the Pertronix. It changes the nature of the "signal" seen on the coil. Also, if using Pertronix, I would not recommend taking the feed for the electric choke off the coil. In fact, it's a bad idea to run the electric choke off the coil in any case. With stock ignition, you would be overloading the pink resistance wire in the harness. On later model Hawks and sedans, there is usually a red wire with a female 1/4" quick-connect dangling from the harness near the back of the left side cylinder head, intended to provide power for overdrive, when so equipped. That wire is hot when the key is on, and I have used it for electric choke.
          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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          • #6
            Boy-a can of worms you've created. The sender you have is different, than the one used with dual point Prestolites. Then you changed the points to a Pertronix module. That alone would have required some rerouting of some wires at the coil, since you are using the Pertronix coil. My suggestion, to simplify your problem would be to reinstall the Delco, buy the Pertronix Delco conversion, re-curve the Delco to R specs. Then the Tach will work. Otherwise you are going to have to create a new sender, maybe from scratch to drive your tach. This gives you an idea of what goes on, with just the Pertronix conversion on the stock tach to make it work. http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/tach/tachpert.html

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gordr View Post
              I expect the issue is the Pertronix. It changes the nature of the "signal" seen on the coil. Also, if using Pertronix, I would not recommend taking the feed for the electric choke off the coil. In fact, it's a bad idea to run the electric choke off the coil in any case. With stock ignition, you would be overloading the pink resistance wire in the harness. On later model Hawks and sedans, there is usually a red wire with a female 1/4" quick-connect dangling from the harness near the back of the left side cylinder head, intended to provide power for overdrive, when so equipped. That wire is hot when the key is on, and I have used it for electric choke.
              I plan on wiring the choke up permanently to a ignition source inside the car. I only hooked it up to the coil to see if the choke worked and to see how the carb worked. I have had 3 carbs on it trying to get a good one. Is there any way to use a factory tach with the pertronix kit?

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              • #8
                Yes-see post #6, Your tach head is different than a R type as is the sendor for it. To make it work right you either have to find a R type tach and sendor, or just put in the Delco Distributor with its Pertronix conversion (different set up completely) then do a minor wiring change under the dash, by bypassing the pink resistor wire as per the instructions at Bob's sight. Dave T does distributor recurving and then you can adjust the points the easy way and have you original tach work.

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                • #9
                  Well it looks like have some more work ahead to get everything working properly. Thinks for all the info and the link to bobs site. I might have to run it without a tach for a little while, but i will hook the ignition and the choke up correctly before I drive it. I have little items left to tend to like carb linkage and vacuum hoses for the advance to re route since I will have to run the edelbrock for now till I rebuild the carter afb and get it operational.

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                  • #10
                    The Edelbrock will work fine, with the right jets- what model? I'm guessing a 1406 as it has an electric choke. Will need to lean it down most likely to perform decently. As a R1 all you need is the right jets, rods and springs, and a new air cleaner since the mouth of the carb is 5 1/8 the R1 original won't fit without a different lower piece. Good luck, sorry we didn't have a simple answer, but putting modern items on a 50 year old design always has some hiccups.

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                    • #11
                      I put a Pertronix system in my 63 R-2 Hawk, kept the tach wiring the same as before & it works perfectly. What I don't have is being stuck on the side of the road with broken points spring coming apart like what happened to me in the #1 Avanti.

                      Yes (the Hawk), it has always had the round sending unit.
                      59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
                      60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
                      61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
                      62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
                      62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
                      62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
                      63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
                      63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
                      64 Zip Van
                      66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
                      66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by karterfred88 View Post
                        The Edelbrock will work fine, with the right jets- what model? I'm guessing a 1406 as it has an electric choke. Will need to lean it down most likely to perform decently. As a R1 all you need is the right jets, rods and springs, and a new air cleaner since the mouth of the carb is 5 1/8 the R1 original won't fit without a different lower piece. Good luck, sorry we didn't have a simple answer, but putting modern items on a 50 year old design always has some hiccups.
                        Yeah it's just things that you run into. Like you said it's a 50 year old design and modern items dont always convert easily. Luckily I have the bigger air cleaner base for the air cleaner so that won't be to much of a issue. It is a 1406 and I did end up bending the bottom of the carb linkage on the driver side so it would clear the intake where the heat cross over is so the carb wouldn't stick at part throttle. I will look for the jet kit while I'm out today, I'm headed up to Louisville ky to the street rod nationals so it should be easy to find a kit.
                        Last edited by 1964hawk; 08-06-2016, 06:12 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks gordr, I was wondering what that red wire was for hanging out of the loom and the back of the driver's cylinder head of my 63 R2 Hawk.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks gordr, I was wondering what that red wire was for, hanging out of the loom at the back of the driver's cylinder head of my 63 R2 Hawk.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Warren Webb View Post
                              I put a Pertronix system in my 63 R-2 Hawk, kept the tach wiring the same as before & it works perfectly. What I don't have is being stuck on the side of the road with broken points spring coming apart like what happened to me in the #1 Avanti.

                              Yes (the Hawk), it has always had the round sending unit.
                              That unfortunately is the crux of the problem, he has a standard GT with the standard tach and square sender. Somebody on here with good electrical knowledge might be able to come up with an adaptation to make it function with the dual point conversion Pertronix though. It seems to me, the signal from the Pertronix would be the same for any distributor conversion. Not me I'm afraid.

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