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  • #16
    Originally posted by karterfred88 View Post
    You should be able to find either a R series 4 barrel manifold, or one of the "modified" two barrel to 4 barrel manifolds pretty easy. Idle really shouldn't be a problem on that engine unless cam replaced. Have you closely adjusted the valves to specs? Too tight and quiet- your idle will be crap from lack of vacuum, slight ticking like a sewing machine-smooth as silk. As to MPG- I would check what gear ratio you have, despite anecdotal accounts of great mileage, Studes get it only with the right ratios, as do even modern engines. What was good in 1962 with 50 MPH limits, and little stop and go traffic, is less satisfactory today at 65-70 and lots of stop and go traffic. You might have to give up some off the line performance to get decent mileage. Ah see you updated since I started--that A/C is old school-lots of drag and HP used to drive it and costs MPG. Someone on here will chime in on a good guess of you rear ratio 2200 at 60 sounds like a good range though to me.
    Originally posted by JoeHall View Post
    With that speed/RPM, if you have anywhere near 27" tall tires, you likely have a 3.31 or 3.07. Is it automatic, 3 or 4 speed?

    If by lumpy idle, you mean it rocks the car a bit when at idle, likely some exhaust valves are too tight. If unsure when they were last adjusted, I'd advise doing it yourself. Properly adjusted, the low end torque is a bit better, and so is the MPG.

    The headers likely improve MPG, instead of lower it.
    Spoke with the fellow who looked after the restoration for the previous owner and found out they installed hydraulic lifters during the rebuild, why I don't know! They did not install a high lift cam but that is what the idle feels like, rocking a bit driving at idle or just above, no hesitation on acceleration and runs smooth at driving speed. I'm not overly concerned with mpg but want mention it along with rough idle so as to get ideas. Manifold is one possibility and perhaps valves the other? Do the hydraulic lifters change things re valve adjustment?

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    • #17
      Did you set the idle mixture screws? They control air/fuel mixture at idle and if not set correctly can cause the symptoms you describe.

      Here is a generic link on them. You should also look at the service manual if you have it.

      http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/...rod/prd105.htm

      BTW, I have one of those Lionel Stone manifolds. The flanges were machined incorrectly so it did not fit. Jeff (DeepNHock) did an excellent job of fixing it up.
      78 Avanti RQB 2792
      64 Avanti R1 R5408
      63 Avanti R1 R4551
      63 Avanti R1 R2281
      62 GT Hawk V15949
      56 GH 6032504
      56 GH 6032588
      55 Speedster 7160047
      55 Speedster 7165279

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      • #18
        " found out they installed hydraulic lifters during the rebuild.... "

        I'm waiting to hear from others how this might have been done, and if it is even possible.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kato View Post
          Spoke with the fellow who looked after the restoration for the previous owner and found out they installed hydraulic lifters during the rebuild, why I don't know! They did not install a high lift cam but that is what the idle feels like, rocking a bit driving at idle or just above, no hesitation on acceleration and runs smooth at driving speed. I'm not overly concerned with mpg but want mention it along with rough idle so as to get ideas. Manifold is one possibility and perhaps valves the other? Do the hydraulic lifters change things re valve adjustment?
          Given the limited and conflicting information you've got, it's impossible to state with any certainty, but short answer, yes. All Stude cams I've ever seen or heard of were designed as solid lifter profiles. As such, they have a clearance ramp and require .015"-.020" clearance. When hydraulic lifters are substituted, they take up all that clearance and thus make the cam longer duration. This could be the source of your slightly rough idle. Since many of Lionel Stone's parts were utilized in your build, it's possible his very suspect "hydraulic lifter conversion kit" was used. I've never actually degreed one myself, but according to sources close to LS, he may have been providing an Iskenderian ST5 solid cam and Rhoads high-leakdown lifters. In theory, Rhoads lifters bypass enough oil to be slow off the seat at idle, but catch up at higher RPMS and make the cam its full duration.

          Bottom line again - no one knows for certain what's actually in there.

          jack vines
          PackardV8

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          • #20
            Well, you've got a bag of worms there. I don't know how much effort you want to get into on this car, but it will need quite a bit. If you are going to put a "standard" carb and manifold on it, then it would be a good idea to check some of the hearsay information for yourself. Pull the valve covers, the valley cover, and do some checking on the cam specs and see if the lifters are in fact hydraulic, by removing one of the rocker stands, push rod and remove and examine it. None of our advice here will help restore "normal" operation with a modified from design, valve train. Returning it to solid lifter operation would depend on the cam and perhaps removing and replacing it with new lifters and correct pushrods. Sorry it's such a problem for you.
            Last edited by karterfred88; 06-21-2016, 09:41 AM.

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            • #21
              intake manifold

              Click image for larger version

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              This is one of Jeff Rice's mopar adapted intakes, can't say enough about how well they work. My engine is an R1 and I'm running a 600 CFM holley double pumper, It scoots down the road exceptionally well with no flat spots/hesitation--- Love it!
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by karterfred88 View Post
                Well, you've got a bag of worms there.

                Click image for larger version

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ID:	1707383 Sure looks like that's what he's got.
                Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gunslinger View Post
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]55540[/ATTACH] Sure looks like that's what he's got.
                  That actually looks better thought out

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                  • #24
                    Holley bad ......Carter (Edelbrock) GOOD!

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                    • #25
                      Jack is right on about the Lional Stone hydraulic cam conversion. Do not change out the lifters, or you will be changing cam and lifters in less than a month. Stone got the idea from me back around 74 when I built his engine. Put Rhoads lifters in my 232 since I was running M Stock and it required hydraulics, told Stone he could do it too. The engine is still running strong in Australia now in his Avanti. I would say you have something wrong in the carb spacer part.
                      Last edited by Alan; 06-21-2016, 03:34 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Alan
                        Would it be possible, if he has the hydraulics, to adjust the plunger depth by adjusting the rocker nut, sort of like an old SBC moving the ball seat out till it clatters then in till it stops then a certain amount additional? Or is there no way to do it on such a Stude set up. I remember-way back when-that that procedure often smoothed out an early SBC.

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                        • #27
                          I do not know how he has it set up now. Was it set for zero lash? What I always did was have it running and hot. Then put on a valve cover that was cut off from the top, back the adjuster off till it started clicking, then tighten it up till it stops. If he had it set for .015" to .025" lash, then there might be problems. One of the hardest things to do is a tune up with the car 2,000 miles away.

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                          • #28
                            Thanks for all of the advice. I'm talking to a wise Stude guy and all indications point to the L/S manifold as the culprit. I will be taking a closer look at things in another week or so.

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                            • #29
                              Kato, I hope that Stude guru has a scope to put on it first. That is the best and quickest way to find where your problems lie. Do not throw away that Stone manifold. Stone made those manifolds in 3 different configurations. The first batch were the worst, by the end they were some sweet manifolds. If you do remove it, check with Jeff Rice.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Alan View Post
                                I do not know how he has it set up now. Was it set for zero lash? What I always did was have it running and hot. Then put on a valve cover that was cut off from the top, back the adjuster off till it started clicking, then tighten it up till it stops. If he had it set for .015" to .025" lash, then there might be problems. One of the hardest things to do is a tune up with the car 2,000 miles away.
                                Originally posted by Alan View Post
                                Kato, I hope that Stude guru has a scope to put on it first. That is the best and quickest way to find where your problems lie. Do not throw away that Stone manifold. Stone made those manifolds in 3 different configurations. The first batch were the worst, by the end they were some sweet manifolds. If you do remove it, check with Jeff Rice.
                                Alan, I am going to try and contact the engine rebuilder but its sounds like he retired and that may not be possible. I have indeed been talking with Jeff and he has some excellent ideas on how to sort this out and what to do with the LS intake. As you say we need to get some equipment in and have a good look at what is going on, in particular whether or not the intake is leaking. Here is the procedure I was told to use for setting up the valves with the hydraulic lifters http://www.ehow.com/how_8026277_do-a...c-lifters.html

                                I've been assured that even a can of worms can run like the wind!

                                I'll post when we get things figured out for anyone who is interested.

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