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  • Other: Tire choices

    Because my "new" Commander is drivable as is, and because the tires were installed in1983, I need to put a set of tires on this car before going farther than one end of the garage to the other. It is going to be a few years before I can get to the full resto on this.

    Car: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...op-in-Alvin-TX

    Anyone running these tires: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cok-700307/overview/


    Will I need tubes? I assume the car came with tubes, and don't know if the factory wheels will hold air on a tubeless.
    Last edited by Lynn; 04-15-2016, 08:41 PM.

  • #2
    You're right. If it still has the original wheels on it, you will probably need tubes, no matter what kind of tires you buy. Wheels designed for tubeless tires have different rim lip designs than the older wheels, which often leak air without tubes.
    Last edited by Skip Lackie; 04-09-2016, 01:53 PM.
    Skip Lackie

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    • #3
      I have run tubeless tires on several of my 50 Champions, using original wheels, with no problem. As long as the wheels are clean and smooth around the bead area, you should be OK. Besides that, finding a person versed in installing tubes is becoming a real problem. Many tire companies will not install tubes. They will sell you tubes, but not put them in the tires. Makes no sense to me, but then neither does a lot of things.
      sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
      1950 Champion Convertible
      1950 Champion 4Dr
      1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
      1957 Thunderbird

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      • #4
        From what I understand the interior surface of a tubeless tire is not proper (too coarse) for tubes. It causes frictional wear that ultimately results in failure of the tube. So, it seems a tough spot to be in. Losing air because of the rims..., or losing air because of the tube/tire friction.
        '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

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        • #5
          They make radial tubes. These tubes are made for radials AND work in bias ply tires also.
          Originally posted by wittsend View Post
          From what I understand the interior surface of a tubeless tire is not proper (too coarse) for tubes. It causes frictional wear that ultimately results in failure of the tube. So, it seems a tough spot to be in. Losing air because of the rims..., or losing air because of the tube/tire friction.
          sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
          1950 Champion Convertible
          1950 Champion 4Dr
          1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
          1957 Thunderbird

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by thunderations View Post
            I have run tubeless tires on several of my 50 Champions, using original wheels, with no problem. As long as the wheels are clean and smooth around the bead area, you should be OK. Besides that, finding a person versed in installing tubes is becoming a real problem. Many tire companies will not install tubes. They will sell you tubes, but not put them in the tires. Makes no sense to me, but then neither does a lot of things.
            My '53 Commander Starliner had tubeless tires on the original rims when I bought it in 1966. I don't remember having to add air to them and when I put a set of bias ply tires on the car in the '80s I don't remember ever having to add air even after a 500-mile round trip on Interstates. When I sold it, I drove it out of the barn and on to my buyer's trailer with original air in the tires.
            Attached Files
            Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
            '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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            • #7
              For cars that sit a lot tubes are good insurance they won't be flat in the spring.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by t walgamuth View Post
              For cars that sit a lot tubes are good insurance they won't be flat in the spring.
              The non radial tubs in a radial will not work for long. I found out the hard way....like a lot of things.
              Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lynn View Post
                Will I need tubes? I assume the car came with tubes, and don't know if the factory wheels will hold air on a tubeless.
                I'm not sure, when the last Studebaker automobile came from the factory with tubes in the tires? But it was sometime before '53.
                When I bought my '54 in 1977 it still had an original, fully inflated, Firestone 7.10 x 15 TUBELESS whitewall in the trunk! When it was finally removed from the wheel in September 2014 it was still had good pressure.

                Mark
                sigpic

                S2Deluxe = (5H - C3).

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                • #9
                  Very interesting Mark. I just assumed they were tube tires. I am out of town right now, but will look when I get home to see if the tires on the car now are tubeless.

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                  • #10
                    From Wikipedia:
                    History

                    Many patents had been filed covering tubeless tires. Killen Tire applied for a patent in 1928 and was granted GB patent 329955 in the UK in 1930. The Wingfoot Corporation, a subsidiary of Goodyear Tire were granted a patent in South Africa in 1944. Due to technical problems, most of these designs only saw limited production or were abandoned.

                    Frank Herzegh working for BF Goodrich applied for a patent in 1946 and eventually received US patent 2587470 in 1952 in the United States. By 1955 tubeless tires became standard equipment on new cars.[1] BF Goodrich had to defend their patent in court several times, due to the similarities of previous designs. The primary difference between the BF Goodrich design and their predecessors was the usage of butyl rubber, which was more resistant to air leakage than the natural rubber used in the other designs.[2][3]
                    Safety

                    Traditional designs of pneumatic tires required a separate inner tube which could fail for a number of reasons, such as incorrect tire fit, friction between the tire wall and inner tube generating excess heat, or a puncture. Tubeless tire technology does away with the need for an inner tube thereby increasing safety.[1][4][citation needed] In a tubeless tire, the tire and the rim of the wheel form an airtight seal, with the valve being directly mounted on the rim. If a tubeless tire gets a small puncture, air escapes only through the hole, leading to a gentle deflation. Conversely, an inner tube could potentially burst like a balloon, leading to deflation of the tire which could result in sudden loss of control of the vehicle. However, the "bursting like a balloon" scenario is highly unlikely due to fact that the inner tube is inside of the tire and will deflate at a rate proportional to the puncture hole size.
                    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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                    • #11
                      Guessing tubeless will not be an issue. The ones on there now were installed in 1983 and are tubeless.

                      Before I go to the trouble of blasting an painting wheels, just making sure these are my original 53 wheels:

                      Click image for larger version

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                      • #12
                        Those look to be correct to me. The hub cap clips that fit in the 3 slots are available if you need them. I have a couple extra, matching wheels if needed.
                        Originally posted by Lynn View Post
                        Guessing tubeless will not be an issue. The ones on there now were installed in 1983 and are tubeless.

                        Before I go to the trouble of blasting an painting wheels, just making sure these are my original 53 wheels:

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]53120[/ATTACH]
                        sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
                        1950 Champion Convertible
                        1950 Champion 4Dr
                        1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
                        1957 Thunderbird

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, since they have the rectangular holes for the Hub Cap Clips and are 5 on 4 1/2" Center Bolt Pattern, they ARE '51 to '57, 5 Inch X 15 Inch Stude. Wheels.
                          StudeRich
                          Second Generation Stude Driver,
                          Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                          • #14
                            When I did the resto on my '53K, I hunted down a set of correct rims for it. Car came with 4 rims but out of them, only 1 was remotely usable and after blasting turned out to have a fair amount of small pits so I never used it. I rounded up 4 replacement rims from different sources. 2 of them came from a '55 sedan that was up high & dry on top of a car pile so rims not rusted from ground contact. 2 others found in separate locations at another old 'yard. Comparing the 8 rims I had then I noted they were not all exactly the same. The dimensions were all the same, and the hubcap slots, etc but the way the center was attached to the rim varied and also the ribbing pattern around the lug nut holes. 1 rim used rivets to attach the center to the rim, the others were sort of riveted in the sense that some massive tool had stamped the rim through the center or the center through the rim and smacked it. Some were 1 way and some the other. At least 2 rims were made by Budd (logo was stamped in) but the others were apparently a different vendor.

                            When painted up and with tires and covers on they all looked and fit the same.

                            I ran P205/75R15 tires on them for a couple of years but didn't like the way the tires were a bit too bulged out. These were the stock 5" stude rims of course. I then got some 6" wide ford rims and sold the stude ones a couple years ago. I never had tubes in them and never any problems with air leaking, etc.

                            Jeff in ND

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for the comments. Fixed the link in the first post re: tires.

                              Don't guess I need the clips, at least for now, as this car has the full wheel covers, and I like that look. Plus, very easy to keep clean.

                              Tires I am considering are these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cok-700307/overview/

                              I know they look "skinny" by today's standards, but I am OK with that. I have other cars built to handle. I like the period correct look, but draw the line at bias ply. I have bias ply tires on my 69 Z/28 right now; but when I want to drive it hard, I swap them for some alloy wheels with modern radials.

                              The skinny Coker's look like the best of both worlds to me.

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