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R3 heads flow rate

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  • Engine: R3 heads flow rate

    Does anyone know what the maximum flow rate (CFM) has been acheved for R3 Heads?

  • #2
    One famous/infamous Stude performance shop once advertised R3 heads guaranteed to flow 211.8 CFM. Close examination determined these were spray-welded stock heads which were being passed off as R3s.

    For comparison, a stock V8 head flows approx 145 CFM and the best professionally ported stock heads at a parts and labor cost of $3,600, have been measured at 206 CFM. A professional head builder who has never lied to me said it takes too much work, including moving the intake guide, to get to 200 CFM and he refuses to ever work on Stude heads again.

    FWIW, flow benches are supposedly all calibrated to the same orfice, but there is more variation than one would hope.

    jack vines

    BTW, while off topic, the same professional porter told me the R3 combustion chamber was a very poor design and and couldn't understand why they used it, as the stock Stude was much better.
    Last edited by PackardV8; 01-11-2016, 03:41 PM.
    PackardV8

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    • #3
      BTW, while off topic, the same professional porter told me the R3 combustion chamber was a very poor design and couldn't understand why they used it, as the stock Stude was much better. "

      Well, THAT'S an eye opener...

      Comment


      • #4
        I am SURE the "Poor flow R3 Heads Topic" is going to be a very opinionated Topic; you 345 DeSoto, are starting to get really GOOD at coming up with those lately!

        In spite of what others may say about it, here's my take:

        Anyone can say what they want about the Quality of design of these Heads, but when the rubber hits the road as Ted Harbit and George Krem have proven, you can't catch an R3 with with those HUGE Ports with a R2, modified within reason or not!
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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        • #5
          Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
          I am SURE the "Poor flow R3 Heads Topic" is going to be a very opinionated Topic; you 345 DeSoto, are starting to get really GOOD at coming up with those lately!

          In spite of what others may say about it, here's my take:

          Anyone can say what they want about the Quality of design of these Heads, but when the rubber hits the road as Ted Harbit and George Krem have proven, you can't catch an R3 with with those HUGE Ports with a R2, modified within reason or not!
          It depends on weather you're running a stock blower, or a VR4. And to the novice they look the same.
          A gear drive Novi Paxton would of course blow them both out of the water. pun intended
          Bez Auto Alchemy
          573-318-8948
          http://bezautoalchemy.com


          "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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          • #6
            Many years ago I entrusted a R3 cylinder head to a friend of mine, George Gallo, who worked close to some other engineers at the Ford experimental labs in Detroit. He had my R3 head flow tested in the lab and the results very much impressed the Ford engineers. I do not remember the flow numbers but their comment was that it flowed about the same as the Chevrolet fuel head. (I believe the fuel head is the 2.02 intake head?) their other comment that rather surprised me was that the tulip valves in the stock R3 head hindered the flow and the flow rate improved when they installed a standard T head valve.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 345 DeSoto View Post
              BTW, while off topic, the same professional porter told me the R3 combustion chamber was a very poor design and couldn't understand why they used it, as the stock Stude was much better. "

              Well, THAT'S an eye opener...
              After the Wrapper beat the nice, well-set up, well-driven 1970 Chevelle SS454/450 in a heads-up race (with a terminal speed nearly 4 mph faster than the 454 and with 140-some fewer cubic inches), Bob was overheard mumbling in the pits "If only the Wrapper's R3 had the superior combustion chamber design of the 454/450, think of what it could do." <GGG>

              Sorry--couldn't resist.

              George
              george krem

              Comment


              • #8
                Back to the O/P's question.

                What exactly are you looking for, as far as cylinder heads go?

                There has been some interesting work done in this area that we should see in 2016.














                HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                Jeff


                Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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                • #9
                  I was under the impression that the basis of the R3 heads was that they were supposed to be for the 340 ci engine, not a high performance bored out 289...that they were more or less an off-the-shelf not fully developed stock motor design and not intended for the purpose of a high performance engine. The design was basically what was available during a period of compressed time and financial crisis. The Granatellis did their best with what they had with time and money.
                  Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

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                  • #10
                    Hey Jeff, how about telling us non-machinists what is going on here in Project #130224?

                    It would appear that you are developing a N/C Controlled Head Porting operation?

                    VERY Professional, not to mention COOL!

                    How many Ported 1557570 Heads a week can that thing spit out? Sign me up!!

                    UPDATE: Thanks Jeff, the 570 was a 970!
                    These are my FAV, the '63-'64 Lark, Hawk and R1 Avanti,
                    8.25 or 10.25 Heads.
                    Last edited by StudeRich; 01-11-2016, 07:52 PM.
                    StudeRich
                    Second Generation Stude Driver,
                    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Has been a long, drawn out, and sometimes frustrating project...
                      (and I really had a hard time deciding whether to post this, knowing the attitudes of some on this forum)
                      But it is close to being ready to roll out.
                      Won't make any promises at this time.
                      But when a couple of tooling and tool path bugs are worked out, the first batch will be coming.
                      There is a skid of cores waiting to go in the machine as we speak.
                      I'll have more to say when I actually have some bullets for my gun.
                      But, to sort of answer your question..... How many?
                      As many as I can get decent cores for, and paying customers for.
                      These are R1/R2 port sizing.
                      Flow bench testing was in the 200 to 205 cfm range.
                      Will have to re-flow them after the first prototypes come back.
                      The first pair are going on 'The Black Car', which currently has a set of Ted's heads on it.
                      Should be fun to do a back to back test.
                      So... I'll just tease it by saying .....soon.

                      PS: double check that casting number you posted.



                      Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                      Hey Jeff, how about telling us non-machinists what is going on here in Project #130224?
                      It would appear that you are developing a N/C Controlled Head Porting operation?
                      VERY Professional, not to mention COOL!
                      How many Ported 1557970 Heads a week can that thing spit out? Sign me up!!
                      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                      Jeff


                      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I will be watching this closely- the budget is stretched already but a beans and ramen diet may be fair trade for port-n-polish magic!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's the flow number's from my Lark's ported 570 heads.

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Lark 570 Heads.jpg
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                          Has anybody got flow numbers for stock R3 heads?

                          Cheers,

                          Allen
                          1964 GT Hawk
                          PSMCDR 2014
                          Best time: 14.473 sec. 96.57 MPH quarter mile
                          PSMCDR 2013
                          Best time: 14.654 sec. 94.53 MPH quarter

                          Victoria, Canada

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                          • #14
                            Those are awesome numbers, Allen.
                            I, too, would like to see the 'stock' R3 numbers...just for curiosity sake.

                            (As far as my CNC porting project goes).
                            I am keeping pretty quiet on spouting any cfm number 'at this time'...for a couple of reasons.
                            (a) Numbers mean little when compared to actual performance.
                            (b) Too many variables between flow benches to make a 'solid' claim.
                            (c) Kept this conservative to prevent possible leakage problems related to core shift.

                            There is more cfm possible with this setup, but if everything was taken to the max,
                            (and there is a much bigger risk of hitting water somewhere in the port).
                            And the milling machine can't tell. It just goes from point A to B to C....
                            I just want to make an decent performance head available to everyone at an affordable price.
                            (and that is not an easy endeavor)
                            Last edited by DEEPNHOCK; 01-12-2016, 07:18 AM.
                            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                            Jeff


                            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have a set of original R3 heads waiting to get flowed. My brother Nimesh has flow numbers on heads from several original R3 engines (B103, B108 I think and Jay's engine...not sure what number...Brad Bez you know). All of the flow numbers varied. All of the heads were flowed on the same flow bench btw. A set of stock heads spray welded or not can achieve the same if not better flow numbers than a stock set of R3 heads.

                              Deepesh

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