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Officially stumped!!

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  • Electrical: Officially stumped!!

    I've been working on this 59 Silver hawk getting all the wiring hooked up after replacing the engine. I have just about everything working, head light, parking lights, turn signals, hi/lo beam. I racking my head trying to get the stop lights to work. I have an original Service manual and it has a great electrical diagram. According to the diagram there's a red wire coming from the stop light/dome light fuse block. This red wire (hot wire) is supposed to go to the brake light switch then from there it goes to the "direction signal switch"..... easy enough. From what I can ascertain the red wire gets power from the fuse block which passing through the stop light switch (when you step on the brake) then the 12V continues to the direction signal switch (Red w/white tracer) where it gives power to both tail lights via the L and R turn (Tan and Green wires to Click image for larger version

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ID:	1749075the rear) signal wires??? Am I correct about my assumptions?? Because even when I put 12V directly to the Red w/white tracer into the column I get nothing. I'm ready to install the stop light switch but if I can't get the brake lights to work by hooking (12V) the wires directly to the column wire (red w/wht tracer) it certainly won't work with a switch in there. I've made sure I'm getting 12 volts all the way to the direction signal switch itself in the column collar so I know I have continuity.
    Do the brake lights work by taking power from the red w/white tracer and distribute it to the two rear signal light wires?? What am I missing???

    thanks,
    Treblig
    Last edited by Treblig; 11-18-2015, 02:35 PM.

  • #2
    Kinda hard to follow ya. But, the brake light and the turn signals work thru the same wire. If you are looking at the right color wires in the diagram, then yes the turn signal switch distributes power to the wires. You didn't mention the flasher being in and wired?

    Comment


    • #3
      Treblig;
      What happens if you jumper from the Red /White wire to either the green or tan wire (wire to the brake lights). Does a brake light illuminate?. Also don't forget that there is a switching function in the directional signal switch so that only one rear brake light illuminates when using the directional signal.
      Ron

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Flashback View Post
        Kinda hard to follow ya. But, the brake light and the turn signals work thru the same wire. If you are looking at the right color wires in the diagram, then yes the turn signal switch distributes power to the wires. You didn't mention the flasher being in and wired?
        The flasher (L and R signal flasher) was never disconnected, it's works perfectly. L and R signals work just like they're supposed to, that's why I'm confused. If the L and R signals flash (front and rear) and work properly I would think that putting power to the red w/wht tracer wire should cause the stop lights to come on but it doesn't?? Again...I'm assuming (from reading the wiring diagram) that power comes from the stop light/dome light fuse block and continues thru the brake light switch to the column and through the TSS.
        I had the car inspected before the engine replacement and the stop lights did work (everything worked) so I know the wiring isn't messed up. I'm using the same steering column stuff (signal switch) and wiring. The only thing I'm doing different is that I took the brake light switch wires off the stock switch and I'm moving them to a stop light switch in a different location. So all the wiring is the same. Even if I had no brake light switch, I should still be able to put 12V to the Red w/wht tracer wire into the column and get the stop lights to work.


        Thanks,
        treblig

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rstrasser View Post
          Treblig;
          What happens if you jumper from the Red /White wire to either the green or tan wire (wire to the brake lights). Does a brake light illuminate?. Also don't forget that there is a switching function in the directional signal switch so that only one rear brake light illuminates when using the directional signal.
          Ron
          I can go out right now and check but my L and R signals (front and rear) work perfectly using the signal wand. I can put 12V to the Green and Tan wires in a few minutes but being a how both rear signals work I know the wiring from the signal switch is good or they wouldn't work. Could the TSS itself have gone bad while I had it out for a few weeks??

          Treblig

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          • #6
            That sounds right to me. As you said the Red W/White wire powers up the T/S Switch contacts to BOTH the Tan and Green wires to the Tail Light Turn Sig. Filaments ONLY when the Switch is in Neutral.

            The Black wire supplies the Flashing power to the White W/Green OR White W/Tan wires to the Front Bulbs AND the Green or Tan rear wires depending on if it is switched to Left or Right.
            It has the capability of flashing one of the Stop Lights when both a turn and a Stop are being signalled.

            A malfunction like you describe would almost have to be bad contacts in the Switch, unless I misunderstand something you are doing.

            Probably a dumb question, but you DO have the Tail Lights, Parking Lights and Battery GROUNDED right?

            Note: I was not able to trace the White W/Tan and the White W/Green from the Switch to be sure those should go to the Front Lights and NOT the Solid Tan and Green, so I am assuming you got that right.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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            • #7
              Treblig;
              I would suspect that the switch that powers the brake lights that is in the turn signal signal switch has gone bad.
              Ron

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                That sounds right to me. As you said the Red W/White wire powers up the T/S Switch contacts to BOTH the Tan and Green wires to the Tail Light Turn Sig. Filaments ONLY when the Switch is in Neutral.

                The Black wire supplies the Flashing power to the White W/Green OR White W/Tan wires to the Front Bulbs AND the Green or Tan rear wires depending on if it is switched to Left or Right.
                It has the capability of flashing one of the Stop Lights when both a turn and a Stop are being signalled.

                A malfunction like you describe would almost have to be bad contacts in the Switch, unless I misunderstand something you are doing.

                Probably a dumb question, but you DO have the Tail Lights, Parking Lights and Battery GROUNDED right?

                Note: I was not able to trace the White W/Tan and the White W/Green from the Switch to be sure those should go to the Front Lights and NOT the Solid Tan and Green, so I am assuming you got that right.

                It's not a dumb question....but, Since the turn signals (front and rear) work flawlessly and the running/tail lights (front and rear work perfectly) then I should have a good ground on all my signal/stop/tail lights...unless I'm missing something??
                White with Grn and White with Brn go to the front signals..YES!!

                "As you said the Red W/White wire powers up the T/S Switch contacts to BOTH the Tan and Green wires to the Tail Light Turn Sig. Filaments ONLY when the Switch is in Neutral." This is the answer I was looking for, the wiring diagram never tells you where power is coming from so I pulled the fuse on the Dome/Stop light fuse block to see which side is hot (without the fuse). That's how I determined that 12V goes from the fuse block to the column (Red w/wht tracer). I even tried putting 12 V directly to the red w/wht tracer at the column and still no stop lights. But everything else works as advertised!! No issues with turn signals, flasher, tail lights, head lights, HI/LO beam.

                treblig

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rstrasser View Post
                  Treblig;
                  I would suspect that the switch that powers the brake lights that is in the turn signal signal switch has gone bad.
                  Ron
                  Ron, I hope you're wrong but I might have to face the music!!! But just out of pure luck I bought this:

                  http://www.ebay.com/itm/151854811907...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


                  the other day to use as back up just in case I ever had problems with my TSS. It's supposed to be here Monday. I hope I don't have to swap them out, I've taken the steering column apart so many times I can do it in my sleep with one hand tied behind my back and a patch over one eye!!!


                  PS - I was hoping that I was missing something!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  Treblig

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With everything that you have covered so far, the only answer that makes sense to me is, you have a bad turn signal switch. It's not making contact between the brake light and turn signal terminals inside the switch.
                    Jerry Forrester
                    Forrester's Chrome
                    Douglasville, Georgia

                    See all of Buttercup's pictures at https://imgur.com/a/tBjGzTk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jerry hit on exactly the problem I had with my brothers Avanti a few years back. Our problem almost mirrors yours, and I actually took the switch apart very carefully. There are small brass slider type contacts in slots in the plastic "housing", and one was worn enough to cock inside the slot and just miss making contact on the end of its travel. I was actually able to "fix" the contact and it still works fine. So the short reply from me should have been "you probably have a bad switch". Best of luck, Bill.

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                      • #12
                        Treyblig, years ago i had the problem. i resurrected my old switch by soaking with CRC contact cleaner and working the switch. after several hrs all was well in Hawk Ville. luck Doofus

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                        • #13
                          Well I can certainly take it apart and try. Since I'll have a back up switch Monday I have nothing to loose. Besides I like taking things apart.
                          thanks for all the responses...........

                          PS - One more thing...I suppose when I get the replacement switch I can hook it up to the column connector (plug) without installing it in the collar and see if the replacement one works properly. If it does then I know my old one is messed up????

                          Treblig

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                          • #14
                            Apply power to red/wht wire. Turn key on and turn signal switch to either direction. Back probe with test light for flashing at the tan and green wires at the terminal block at bottom of steering column.

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                            • #15
                              You have turn signals but no brake lights? Try the hydraulic switch on the brass junction block by the steering gear.
                              Bez Auto Alchemy
                              573-318-8948
                              http://bezautoalchemy.com


                              "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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