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Edelbrock 1409

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  • Fuel System: Edelbrock 1409

    I have a 1963 Avanti R2 and the AFB is crusty. I've read here that the Edelbrock 1406 is a good replacement for the AFB, but I'm wondering if the Edelbrock 1409 Marine Carburetor would be better for a supercharged engine. I believe the 1409 is a sealed 600CFM carburetor. Thanks.

  • #2
    The venting is different, sometimes no vacuum ports and I think there are differences in the choke linkage. I had a modified 406 on my R2 for years and leakage wasn't a problem even with a modified blower that put a real 6 lbs through the carb.

    I believe a rebuild kit from Edelbrock includes the accel pump seal.

    Biggest issue would be using your carb hat. It won't fit on an Edelbrock. If you have an original carb send it off to Dave Thiebault for a remanufacture. No more than a new carb and it's a bolt on.

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    • #3
      Been talked about many-a time...
      You'll get the best "overall" drivability if you stick with the 500cfm, 1403.
      The 1406 may have a small advantage while over 60 or so mph, but if you do the math, the 1403 wins...overall. There and MANY cfm computers on the net (google, "carburetor size"), using those you may note that using most of those will give back about a 485cfm sized carburetor...!
      If you have the experience, you can get an 850 to work on the little Stude engine, but again, "overall", the 500cfm wins every time.
      Your choise, "ok" or "something the engine will like better".

      Mike

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      • #4
        Hi Mike,

        I understand the advantage of a 500 CFM [1403 (versus 600 CFM) 1406] carburetor on our 289s, but my question was about using an already sealed carburetor [1409 (600 CFM)].

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        • #5
          Hi Bije,

          The carburetor on my car was the wrong one. It was a Carter AFB 3721SB, so I need to start with a new carburetor. That was why I was wondering whether an already sealed Edelbrock, such as the 1409 would be better than the unsealed 1406. It looks like ideally, a sealed 1403 is the target carburetor, despite having to find or make a new hat for it. (I've seen the posts about Edelbrock carbs with Carter tops, but the required machining is beyond my current capabilities.)

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          • #6
            Nick Berger in Westminster California and his famous Cristine R-2 Avanti has an Edelbrock carb, he made a custom carb top to fit the new carb....contact him and I am sure you will be able to mate the carb to an augmented carb top.
            Originally posted by GinettaG12P View Post
            Hi Bije,

            The carburetor on my car was the wrong one. It was a Carter AFB 3721SB, so I need to start with a new carburetor. That was why I was wondering whether an already sealed Edelbrock, such as the 1409 would be better than the unsealed 1406. It looks like ideally, a sealed 1403 is the target carburetor, despite having to find or make a new hat for it. (I've seen the posts about Edelbrock carbs with Carter tops, but the required machining is beyond my current capabilities.)

            Comment


            • #7
              It is five yrs since I installed a 1403 on my R-1 4 speed.....and has given no problems whatsoever:-)
              Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten View Post
              Been talked about many-a time...
              You'll get the best "overall" drivability if you stick with the 500cfm, 1403.
              The 1406 may have a small advantage while over 60 or so mph, but if you do the math, the 1403 wins...overall. There and MANY cfm computers on the net (google, "carburetor size"), using those you may note that using most of those will give back about a 485cfm sized carburetor...!
              If you have the experience, you can get an 850 to work on the little Stude engine, but again, "overall", the 500cfm wins every time.
              Your choise, "ok" or "something the engine will like better".

              Mike

              Comment


              • #8
                Not all AFB tops can be used. It's easier for me to look at yours and see it is usable than explain the difference so take a picture from the top and post it.


                This is something I posted here years ago. The first paragraph is the most important. The air valve and secondary linkage tweaks help performance but on the street you wouldn't notice a difference.

                [IMG]file:///C:/Users/17%20white/Documents/Bob%20Johnstones%20Studebaker%20Resource%20Website%20(1964%20Studebaker%20Avanti %20R-5388%20-%201406%20Edelbrock%20Hybrid)_files/Prezweblhd.jpg[/IMG]



                Bob's Resource Website (2007)
                1964 Studebaker Avanti R-5388 - 1406 Edelbrock Hybrid
                Ernie Rizzolo - Livingston, NJ




                I have a Hybrid 1406 on my R2 Avanti. I took JP's idea of the AFB top on the Edelbrock bottom and did a couple of mods that have made the car perform better.
                One change that would only be necessary with the AFB top installed is the use of the original AFB primary and secondary venturi clusters. The primary clusters of the Edelbrock have shorter vent tubes and rather than being separated from the air stream though the throats they would be exposed to it. I found that once I went to the AFB clusters throttle response and FUEL MILEAGE greatly improved. The secondaries had a slightly different configuration so I changed them also but it may not be critical, the primary change is. Before the change the car needed a larger jet to perform properly.
                The second change is subtle and easy but helped eliminate a big drop in power at high RPM's. The secondary air flap on the Edelbrock doesn't lay flat like the AFB's. In a naturally aspirated sitiuation this positioning probably helps it open a little quicker. I think in a blow through situation it's angle allows it to be pushed shut or flutter at high RPM and full boost. A little grinding on the counterweight allows the flap to lay flat like the original R2 AFB.
                [IMG]file:///C:/Users/17%20white/Documents/Bob%20Johnstones%20Studebaker%20Resource%20Website%20(1964%20Studebaker%20Avanti %20R-5388%20-%201406%20Edelbrock%20Hybrid)_files/r5388edel1s.jpg[/IMG]
                The third mod is to make a hard connection on the secondary linkage. Both the AFB and the Edelbrock can benefit from this mod. The secondary plates are not directly connected to the primary. There is a fairly heavy spring that opens the secondaries once the tension from the primary linkage is released and the choke is fully open. If your choke isn't opened all the way the secondary plates on the AFB and the E Carb wont open but the pedal will still go to the floor. I may not be explaining it well but the bottom line is that full boost can overpower the spring pressure and keep the secondaries closed. I tack welded the linkage together although there may be other ways. I noticed an instantaneous change in full throttle performance after I did this.
                I've spent LOTS of hours making the Hybrid carb work. The Avanti has run a best of 15.097 and gets 22 MPG on the highway with the 3.73's and the 700R4. It doesn't leak ( anymore than the original AFB did, mild seapage after lots of hard driving ), idles smoothly in the hottest weather and responds as crisply as any carbureted car possibly can.
                My next mod is not to the carb itself but to use an "O" ring for the carb hat rather than a paper gasket to get a better seal and pick up a tiny bit of hood clearance.
                Tack weld at the screwdriver tip.[IMG]file:///C:/Users/17%20white/Documents/Bob%20Johnstones%20Studebaker%20Resource%20Website%20(1964%20Studebaker%20Avanti %20R-5388%20-%201406%20Edelbrock%20Hybrid)_files/r5388edel2s.jpg[/IMG]

                [IMG]file:///C:/Users/17%20white/Documents/Bob%20Johnstones%20Studebaker%20Resource%20Website%20(1964%20Studebaker%20Avanti %20R-5388%20-%201406%20Edelbrock%20Hybrid)_files/r5388track.jpg[/IMG] ErnieR
                [IMG]file:///C:/Users/17%20white/Documents/Bob%20Johnstones%20Studebaker%20Resource%20Website%20(1964%20Studebaker%20Avanti %20R-5388%20-%201406%20Edelbrock%20Hybrid)_files/notepad2.gif[/IMG]

                There is an extra screw hole in the back of an afb top that has no corresponding threaded hole on the Edelbrock but sealing that can be done with gas tank repair epoxy or like I did it with a screw, o ring and filed nut to fit in the carb hat.

                It is NOT as difficult as it sounds.

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                • #9
                  When your only power tools are a drillpress and a grinder, the results are often less than spectacular. My son-in-law sold his entire machine shop, so now I no longer have access to the required machine tools.

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                  • #10
                    You will need a Philips head screwdriver a flat head screwdriver some common size wrenches. Adapting any Edelbrock to your car would require grinding the intake manifold to make room for the secondary linkage on the passenger side. Sounds like it would be best for you to talk to Dave T about getting a proper R2 carb built.But again, no machining to the carb is necessary.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi,

                      I found this post a while ago, and this is what prompted me to say that I do not have access to a milling machine (or other machine tools.) It looks like in order to seal the throttle shafts in the Edelbrock base, some machining is required.

                      Just a couple pics of the Carter method of sealing the throttle shafts implemented on an Edelbrock base. Quick and clean, but I cheat by using a CNC. You can do the same by hand, though. Pressure from above the throttle plates comes through the secondary airvalve counterweight well to the passages milled in the base and around the throttle shafts. The nice part is the same program works for all the Edelbrocks.



                      Machined Edelbrock base



                      Edelbrock on the left, Carter R2 on the right

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                      • #12
                        Beautiful work but I didn't find it necessary to do anything like that on my carb. I drove the car for years, street, dragstrip once in awhile in all temperatures and never had a leak from the throttle shafts.

                        The current owner uses it almost daily and hasn't had to make any modifications to my carb.

                        BTW, my supercharger was modified for higher output and I ran the smaller pulleys. You can click on a link in the Johnstone article and see a picture of it.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for the information. Based on your experience, would you say that an Edelbrock 1403 with an AFB top is the way to go?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think on a supercharged car the 1406 is a better choice. The original AFB was about 625 I think. Also, since the only way it will work properly would be to replace the Edelbrock venturies with the AFB venturies your 500 would become a 600 anyway. The way Edelbrock makes the 500 is to make the venturi clusters thicker so they restrict airflow in the primaries. The bores and the throttle blades are the same size as the 600. And, since you would need to richen the 500 up anyway might as well start with the 600. I did a LOT of experimenting with rods, jets and springs and I ended up with the setting the 1406 came with originally. The 1405 manual choke version is set up richer and I think you would have to back it down so back to the 1406. Plus the 1406 is the best seller and I think a little cheaper to begin with.

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                            • #15
                              I just replaced mine with a Edelbrock 500 cfm and we at least have it running.





                              Wayne

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