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Borg Warner T86 interangability?

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  • Borg Warner T86 interangability?

    I am looking at a 3 gear with OD I beleive is out of a car ,I have a 49 pickup with a 170 flat 6 non OD. Do these Trannies all share the same input shaft and bold pattern?

    Jared S Yocum

  • #2
    T86 would be for a Commander 245 six or a later V-8. Trans for the 170 would be a T96. Others here would know more about mounting options.
    "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

    Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
    Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
    '33 Rockne 10,
    '51 Commander Starlight,
    '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
    '56 Sky Hawk

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    • #3
      Jared, the early (late '40s - early '50s)car T86 has the same bolt pattern on it's front face as does the truck one. Bearing retainer might be a different size, you'd have to check.

      What is different is the input shaft and the entire gearset and the main shaft as well. Truck trannies use straight-cut gears, and have a very low "low" gear. The mainshaft has straight splines, so the straight-cut gears can be shifted (low-reverse). Car trannies have a higher low gear, and have helical gears, and helical splines on the mainshaft. You cannot mix and match between car and truck gearsets.

      What you CAN do is cut down the car tranny input shaft so that it resembles the truck input shaft. They both have the same splines, but the splined area on the car tranny is longer, and the pilot portion on the end is thicker and longer. If I remember right, you have to machine off about 1/4" of the front end of the splines, making a sharp taper down to the proper diameter of the truck pilot section, and then cut about 3/4" off the end of the turned-down pilot section. With the two shafts in your hands, it is pretty easy to see the nature of the machining needed. I have done one or two before, and they worked fine in a truck used for casual driving. You won't have the stump-pulling low gear any more, but it will drive like a car, OK.

      I'm going to do another of these conversions shortly, and I'll take some pictures and get dimensions. Be advised that the shaft is very hard steel, and you have to use a tool post grinder or carbide cutters to machine it.

      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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      • #4
        Thanks for the info. My plan is to drive it casually,It runs out great right now but will only runs 60 wide open. It does 50 great though. So at a later date I am installing a 394 OLDs with a T85N .But for now I am having a ball just driving it. So I thought if I could find a OD for it The Flat 6 would keep me satisfied for the time being. I saw 2 T86 transmissions on Ebay over the week end. One in MN pickup only. Sold for $39. And the other did not get one bit and was in NJ. I would have bought the one in NJ but I was not sure if it would work ,and the guy did'nt message my back with a shipping price or what not. Now that I know I can make it work I will call the guy and try and to see if I can get my hands on it. I with I lived closer to NJ.

        Jared S Yocum

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        • #5
          Now I'm really confused. I just pulled out a three speed, non-OD T86 from my 1949 2R5 pickup. It appears to be original, now I don't know? It came with an extra transmission that is a T96 with OD, thought to be out of an automobile? The bell housings are different and the 96 has the OD.

          Thought I was going to take the OD off the 96 and slap in on the t86 and go. Now not so sure?

          LN

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          • #6
            LN, Need some pics. There is a big difference between a car and truck housing. Trannys too, need pics to see what you have or need.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lanthony2020 View Post
              Now I'm really confused. I just pulled out a three speed, non-OD T86 from my 1949 2R5 pickup. It appears to be original, now I don't know? It came with an extra transmission that is a T96 with OD, thought to be out of an automobile? The bell housings are different and the 96 has the OD.

              Thought I was going to take the OD off the 96 and slap in on the t86 and go. Now not so sure?LN
              Most of this was completely explained in "Your" String, Post #3 here:

              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...Identification

              You have to get rid of that car Clutch Housing attached to the T96 O.D. for starters.
              The above (Post #3) may be a problem also but, you can't use the Std. Trans. Mainshaft when you add an O.D. Unit and that means totally disassembling the Main Gearbox as well. Have you ordered your Shop Manual and Parts Catalogs yet?
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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              • #8
                I realize now my original transmission is a T-90 in a T-86 Case stamped T86. Don't assume everyone is super experienced here. Must make room and have patience for newbies, like me.

                Examining the T-96 case w/OD, even if I take off the tail and the bell, the OD from the T96 does not appear that it will bolt up to the t-90 (86). Are there different OD units out there off of cars that will work with this truck? Folks probably want to keep their truck OD's or want a fortune for them?

                LN

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                • #9
                  I have a good used truck 3 spd with overdrive available.
                  Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rockne10 View Post
                    Trans for the 170 would be a T96.
                    While this is true for the passenger cars, it is not correct for a '49 truck. A '49 truck with a 170 champion engine would have a T90 which is a variant of the T86.
                    Paul
                    Winston-Salem, NC
                    Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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                    • #11
                      Ok, case would still be stamped t86 then on my original 49 truck trans, correct.

                      LN

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                      • #12
                        Should be raised letters, not stamped, but right.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lanthony2020 View Post
                          Ok, case would still be stamped t86 then on my original 49 truck trans, correct.

                          LN
                          It gets really confusing to those who haven't been in the discussion over the years, as all truck T90s come in the T86 case with that ID cast in raised letters. There's not much externally to identify the T90, but it's quite different internally. In some of the Champion/Commander engine versions, the input shaft and bearing retainer are also quite different.

                          Same with the T89 using the T85 case.

                          Bottom line - just looking at the casting ID on the case only gets in the right ballpark. Determining in what it came originally and what else it can fit is not so easy. Start by measuring the pilot shaft O.D, input shaft length and bearing retainer OD. Then put it in 1st gear and count the input shaft turns to output shaft turns. That will give the low gear ratio. Pull the top cover and look at the low-reverse sliding gear. Straight cut is truck, bevel cut is car.

                          jack vines
                          PackardV8

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                          • #14
                            That is great? Thank you. Some of us have little to no knowledge here, nothing on these transmission. I have worked on other makes but a real novice here. I am restoring this vehicle now, so I knowledge is most valuable.

                            Last year, when taking my engine and components to my machinist, before leaving for South Dakota, I provided him with my newly acquired manuals. I should have them back soon. Unfortunately, I am feeling like I am being a "pain" on the forum.

                            It is very exiting for me that I am finally getting started on this. "Kid in a Candy Store" syndrome, I think. Just can't wait to figure everything out, I guess. I am sure now the transmission is original. I also understand the bevel cut now as well, thanks to your reply. Very valuable information.

                            This is a great site. I certainly have not paid my dues here and hope I am not so reckless as to offend the more experienced members. If I have, I apologize and can understand this.

                            Thank You,

                            LN

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                            • #15
                              No worries. The only way to offend is to ignore good advice. And then the only damage is to your own wallet. Good luck on the project.
                              RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                              17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                              10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                              10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                              4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                              5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                              56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                              60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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