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Stuck Engine 63 Lark

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  • #31
    Bob~

    I will take a look, and get back to you (offline) soon! Just trying to help, and this seems like it'd be the easiest solution for you...




    StudeDave [8D]
    V/P San Diego County SDC
    San Diego, Ca


    '54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
    '57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
    '57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
    '57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
    '58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
    '65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'
    StudeDave '57
    US Navy (retired)

    3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
    SDC Member since 1985

    past President
    Whatcom County Chapter SDC
    San Diego Chapter SDC

    past Vice President
    San Diego Chapter SDC
    North Florida Chapter SDC

    Comment


    • #32
      John I do not think Bob need worry about his frame, even if he were to install a V-8. A look in the shop manual reveals that only 2dr. sedans had the lightweight 13 ga. frame and '61 2dr's. had 14ga. !!!!!!!!
      The engine has nothing to do with it, it's the body type. All '62 & on Non-export Hardtops and 4dr's have the 11 ga. frame. Of course I am aware that cars that have been in a front end colision, have high HP engines or have 200,000+ miles etc. can tear the frame at the bottom of the coil spring pocket at the rivet that attaches the front crossmember, but I have found it is way worse with 2dr's, the worst being the '65-'66 Daytona Sport Sedans and Commander 2dr's with 283 engine, less torque and HP than a 289/305 FT LBS. ...go figure![:0]

      quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff

      The frames on the 6 cylinder cars were made of a little thinner metal than the V8's and technically weren't as strong.
      StudeRich
      Studebakers Northwest
      Ferndale, WA
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

      Comment


      • #33
        Thanks for the info on the v8. I'm sticking with a six and most likely a stude 6 as the cost to upgrade the car to handle the v8, ie springs, brakes etc, would be rather prohibitive.

        Bob Sporner

        Comment


        • #34
          Considering that a GM V8 is probably the same weight as a Stude 6, you
          dont HAVE to update the springs and brakes unless you want too. I do
          always suggest that people DO upgrade their brakes regardless. Back
          when ALL cars had 4 wheel drum brakes and non-syncro first gears, it
          wasnt a big deal. Today, most of your 6000 pound SUVs can stop MUCH
          faster then your little Lark can with drums. If they are in front of
          you, that means you rearend them - simply put.

          If you are interested in a GM V8, I forgot to mention that I have a
          running '78 305 V8 with a TH350 trans that I would sell to you CHEAP.
          The engine runs good, but needs valve seals (simple job on the car) &
          the trans needs a rebuild (but works - mostly). Reason its being
          sold/removed is we are installing a '94 LT1 350 with 4L60E trans into
          the car as part of a economy 'G-machine' project.

          I am in Santa Barbara County, California.

          Tom
          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

          Comment


          • #35
            thanks for the information on the v8 Tom. I'm sure its much faster and easier to get parts for. I kinda like the sound the six makes. Most of my driving is done locally in palm springs, though I'm working very dilligently to have the car in shape for a South Bend trip in June as you can see in the picture.. its got a long way to go.

            Bob Sporner

            Comment


            • #36
              Not sure if a 78 305 V8 would be much faster then the stock 6, its a
              pretty wimpy V8, rated at 125 hp. There isnt an "re-engineering", as
              Studebaker Canada did that for you. Everything is available to make
              the swap, if you chose to go that route. The 6 should be easier to
              do since there is no modification. I suggest you take inventory on
              the car, and figure out WHAT all needs to be replaced. What condition
              is the trans behind the engine thats in it now? Will it need to be
              rebuilt? How are the brakes? Do you need all new drums/shoes/cyls on
              each corner? How is the exhaust? Rusted out? Holes? In good shape?
              Its worthwhile factoring all that in. Let say that the trans is bad,
              and the exhaust is bad. You need to have those done also. If thats
              the case, then its the same cost to order a 65-66 exhaust as it is to
              order a 63 exhaust. If the 6 cyl engine thats being offered needs to
              be rebuilt, it will cost more money then a GM V8. I used to think it
              was pretty close, but others on SDC and Racing Studes have pointed out
              that EVERYTHING has shot up in cost, where as GM rebuild kits are not
              much more then they were. I am not trying to sway you either way, I
              am keeping my Avanti Studebaker powered, even though its going to cost
              me a LOT more to complete what I want. Would be cheaper for me to put
              an LS2/T56 6 speed into the car, then to keep the Stude, rebuild it,
              and have the T56 adapter made. The LS2 will make 450 hp, compared to
              the R1's ~300 hp (with ported heads), and be about 200 pounds lighter.
              Something that isnt a bad thing in a front heavy Avanti - 60/40 dis.

              Tom
              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

              Comment


              • #37
                Bob~
                The motor is indeed still there, hiding in that corner. It's got a carb, both manifolds and such. There is no bellhousing, so you'll have to use the one off your old motor. I'll email you off line for more details.

                That's all I've got to say, as anything else (about anything else) will get me into trouble... [:0]



                StudeDave [8D]
                V/P San Diego County SDC
                San Diego, Ca


                '54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
                '57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
                '57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
                '57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
                '58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
                '65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'
                StudeDave '57
                US Navy (retired)

                3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
                SDC Member since 1985

                past President
                Whatcom County Chapter SDC
                San Diego Chapter SDC

                past Vice President
                San Diego Chapter SDC
                North Florida Chapter SDC

                Comment


                • #38
                  The bellhousings on Studebakers are dialed in at the factory, without
                  the factory matching bellhousing you can not just "use" your old one
                  without using a dial indicator and dialing it in correctly. This will
                  require new dowel pins being added to keep the proper fit.

                  GM did this differently, and their transmissions (with intregal bell-
                  housings) can be swapped between engines without problems.

                  Tom
                  '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                  Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                  I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    And to think that somehow or another that part about the bellhousing got deleted out of my last post~ imagine that~ opps!!! Been there done that- it's tons of fun!!!
                    Trust me, it would've come up when he comes to get this thing, Either that or when he reads his shop manual...
                    I'm going to shut up now.


                    StudeDave [8D]
                    V/P San Diego County SDC
                    San Diego, Ca


                    '54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
                    '57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
                    '57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
                    '57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
                    '58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
                    '65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'
                    StudeDave '57
                    US Navy (retired)

                    3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
                    SDC Member since 1985

                    past President
                    Whatcom County Chapter SDC
                    San Diego Chapter SDC

                    past Vice President
                    San Diego Chapter SDC
                    North Florida Chapter SDC

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom

                      I kinda like the sound the six makes.
                      You know, I've never heard anyone else say that- besides me! I had an ugly old 64 that had a rebuilt engine and S/S exhaust; I just loved the way that thing purred! I just sold it to a local guy who plans to restore the car- WITH the six!

                      I know he's gonna con me into helping with it some... I'll tell him I will, provided he join the SDC

                      I say, good for you for staying with the six!! [8D]

                      Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                      Parish, central NY 13131
                      http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Well after some research and a lot of guilt from my two uncles... I've decided to keep my studebaker a 100 percent South Bend Studebaker. As one of the uncles put it.. "if you wanted a chevy, you should have bought one. You bought a Studebaker and you need to keep it as such." Those words kinda stung, but he is exactly right. Even though its just a plain standard Lark, it would be wrong to make it anything but what it was meant to be. So, guess I just gotta slow down a bit and do it right.

                        Bob Sporner

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I've had the car for a little over a week and its looking kinda different..attached is the pics of where the progress is at.. Loooong way to go.
                          http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/

                          Bob Sporner

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Making the decision is the first step, there was no wrong choice. Good
                            luck with your project!

                            Tom
                            '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                            Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                            I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Well, over the last few days, got a bit of an education. The car is not a Custom, but rather a Regal. As much as I want to put the car back together, I've been warned by several people offline that this is "the least desireable Studie" as its a 6cyl automatic regal. The car pretty much needs everything. The only thing going for it is the rust free body. In the pics posted, the gray is primer that the previous owner sprayed over paint chips. As its pretty obvious I have limited experience with the brand, I'd like to get some opinions on the route to take. Guess I'm a bit overwhelmed with the real numbers of what must be done to make "the readheaded stepchild of the studebaker family" a nice car again. I like the car, but not sure its worth the 8k that will need to be spent to make it nice. I read a thread that said that "the old larks are like wayward puppies and kittens, they know who to follow home." I guess i gotta admit thats true..

                              Bob Sporner

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Not sure what kind of advice you are getting off the forum, but there
                                are two ways to go about a project like this :

                                1. Fixing it up to keep.
                                2. Fixing it up to sell.

                                Pretty much NO Studebaker is going to turn a profit if you buy in that
                                condition to fix up & sell. None are desirable enough in the publics
                                eye to demand enough cash to get your return. The problem is just as
                                true as the more desirable of the Studebakers such as the Avantis, GT
                                Hawks, and C/Ks. They usually cost MORE to fix up, for things like a
                                fender or factory disc brakes.

                                This leaves you with a choice, are you fixing it up to enjoy, or are
                                you fixing it up in hopes to make money when its finished? It sounded
                                to me like you wanted a car to enjoy, and keep. With a 6 cyl Lark, it
                                really isnt worth paying the cash required to keep the Stude engine.
                                You will spend a decent sum of money to rebuild it. Going with the
                                early mentioned GM engine simplifies the process. I assume the car is
                                a non-power steering car? Not sure what "everything" is that it needs
                                since I havent seen it in person, but if the body and frame are sound,
                                its a great base to build on. If you were to do a small block Chevy,
                                with a TH700R4 trans, you will see some returns on MPG savings just in
                                the trip to South Bend. Someone will take the old Stude motor/trans
                                off your hands for chump change, and you can order the GM mounts from
                                S.I. that I listed earlier, OR you can see if used ones are available
                                from someone near you. As I mentioned, the exhaust is available, and
                                it quite reasonable compared to similar systems for brand X cars. The
                                brakes can be had from Steeltech for roughly 700 dollars (send me your
                                old hubs please). It is a true "bolt on" setup, that you can
                                do with regular hand tools. The rear brakes are available from your
                                local part house from what I read on this forum. The model 27 axle on
                                your Lark will work fine with a mild GM engine, and a light foot. As
                                long as you dont plan on drag racing, just have the axles checked for
                                cracks and be on your way. Most other parts are available from SDC
                                vendors, including interior pieces, or you can source interior parts
                                from your local salvage yard. I got both front & rear leather seats
                                from a 97 Camaro for 200 bucks (www.recycler.com). Simple brackets
                                can be made from different materials. This can also increase driving
                                pleasure, and reduce back pain on that trip to South Bend.

                                If you look at it as a soon to be nice driver, then the money you put
                                into it will pay YOU back in years to come, from having something that
                                is your OWN, different then other cars on the road, & fitting to your
                                personality. Its not going to be cheap, but if you do research, & do
                                most your own work, you'll be surprised how far little money can go!

                                Tom
                                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                                Comment

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