My 52 Champion is stumbling and backfiring on acceleration especially in 3rd gear. New points, plugs, cap, condenser, and copper wires. Newly rebuilt distributor as well as new vacuum advance, along with newly rebuilt carb from Dave Thibeault. I have noticed the timing is always a little different after I set it exact. Seems to be running a few degrees warmer on the temp gauge than usual also. Is this a sign of a worn timing gear ?
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170 stumbles and backfires on acceleration
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1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45Tags: None
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I have also sprayed PBR in the distributor thinking the plates were sticking. Didn't help.1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45
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OK I took the air cleaner off, the oil bath cleaner is clean and not clogged. Just went for a drive and it is really missing under a load. If I step on the accelerator it wants to backfire. Guess it won't be going to the car show at the lake today as I had planned.1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45
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I would recheck the point gap to start with, then fuel supply. Unlikely to have anything to do with the timing gear.Frank van Doorn
Omaha, Ne.
1962 GT Hawk 289 4 speed
1941 Champion streetrod, R-2 Powered, GM 200-4R trans.
1952 V-8 232 Commander State "Starliner" hardtop OD
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'52 Champion, (if your car is still 6 volt) verify that the wire from the coil to the distributor is connected to the (plus) side of the coil. If not it will eat points, causing your symptoms.
If it's 12 volt, it should be ne (minus) side of the coil.
Theory: The distributor grounds the system to make the spark, so the coil wire to the distributor should be a ground wire, 6 volt positive ground, 12 vold negative ground.
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Are your new copper wires gathered into the OEM Champion wire loom? If so, remove them from the loom, spread them out and insure no two wires are closer than 1". Do another test drive and see if the problem goes away. Sometimes that loom promotes crossfiring if the spark plug wire insulation is suspect.
Much of today's aftermarket wiring is Chicom origin and the insulation is not always what it should be.PackardV8
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I bought Accel copper wires that were about $50. I had to finish the ends and I did run them thru the loom.
Originally posted by PackardV8 View PostAre your new copper wires gathered into the OEM Champion wire loom? If so, remove them from the loom, spread them out and insure no two wires are closer than 1". Do another test drive and see if the problem goes away. Sometimes that loom promotes crossfiring if the spark plug wire insulation is suspect.
Much of today's aftermarket wiring is Chicom origin and the insulation is not always what it should be.1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45
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Hi Frank, it was the mechanic that said my timing gear was bad. Then in his next breath said , change the gear when you rebuild the motor. I have a hard time believing that is needs a rebuild. Oil pressure sits at 40-45 going down the road, 20 at idle when hot. Plugs are burning very clean. Compression, I checked it and 5 cylinders were 105-115, one cylinder was at 95. I have checked the point gap. I will check the gas. I drove it this morning. If I am easy on it, it is ok until I get to a hill then I lose power, it can't maintain 65-70mph it stumbles around. I back off to 60mph and am gently with the old girl and she evens back out.
Originally posted by 41 Frank View PostI would recheck the point gap to start with, then fuel supply. Unlikely to have anything to do with the timing gear.1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45
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OK, if you've got good plug wires and all new ignition components, then bad gas is the next most likely culprit. I had a similar problem on an R1 which almost drove me nuts until I drained the tank and filled with fresh fuel.
jack vinesPackardV8
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If all these excellent suggestions don't fix the problem you may have a failing coil or condenser.Frank van Doorn
Omaha, Ne.
1962 GT Hawk 289 4 speed
1941 Champion streetrod, R-2 Powered, GM 200-4R trans.
1952 V-8 232 Commander State "Starliner" hardtop OD
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Originally posted by poweroptions View PostHi Frank, it was the mechanic that said my timing gear was bad. Then in his next breath said , change the gear when you rebuild the motor. I have a hard time believing that is needs a rebuild. Oil pressure sits at 40-45 going down the road, 20 at idle when hot. Plugs are burning very clean. Compression, I checked it and 5 cylinders were 105-115, one cylinder was at 95. I have checked the point gap. I will check the gas. I drove it this morning. If I am easy on it, it is ok until I get to a hill then I lose power, it can't maintain 65-70mph it stumbles around. I back off to 60mph and am gently with the old girl and she evens back out.
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Originally posted by altair View PostIt sounds like a lean condition check your float level it may be too low. Dave
Don't discount the possibility of a carb problem.
Len.
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Gentlemen, had a couple hours in the garage with the old girl. Wires out of the loom, wire to distributor hooked to the positive side of the coil, gas drained fresh 5 gallons in tank. Went for a drive still missing and backfiring if I accelerate to much. The carb is a Dave Thibeault rebuild I recently bought from Dave. You guys have much faith in Dave so I thought it wouldn't be the carb. Maybe it is, I will continue on. The coil is new and one of those high output 6V coils by Petronix I special ordered from Speedway. That's not the problem is it?1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45
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A bit weird, but it happened to me. Check the top of that coil for any wear or damage. When we installed the first Flame thrower coil, it was too high in the bracket and the hood rubbed just enough put a little hole in it. Phhhttt!Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)
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Originally posted by poweroptions View PostGentlemen, had a couple hours in the garage with the old girl. Wires out of the loom, wire to distributor hooked to the positive side of the coil, gas drained fresh 5 gallons in tank. Went for a drive still missing and backfiring if I accelerate to much. The carb is a Dave Thibeault rebuild I recently bought from Dave. You guys have much faith in Dave so I thought it wouldn't be the carb. Maybe it is, I will continue on. The coil is new and one of those high output 6V coils by Petronix I special ordered from Speedway. That's not the problem is it?
If the carb has been shipped there is no guarantee that the float was not knocked out of adjustment etc... Just a suggestion. If you have an old carb throw it on and if it does not change at all then you can eliminate it. It can be a problem I have but I can't throw any old parts out until the new one has been proven to work. When there is a problem changing one thing at a time is a slow methodical way but it assures the eventual finding of the culprit, especially if one can't check the full functionality of the suspected component.
Len.
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