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Brake shoe orientation

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  • Brakes: Brake shoe orientation

    My brother has his Champ truck in the shop to have the brakes repaired. The question of how the shoes should be installed came up. The local Stude expert says that because the brakes on this truck are non-energizing the shoes are reverse of normal which means the short shoe faces backward and the long shoe faces forward. The shop says that they should be installed with the short shoe facing forward and the long shoe facing backward. Who is right?
    Dan

  • #2
    year ? 1/2 ton ? no shop manual ? My guess is the shop is right ..

    Comment


    • #3
      NON-self energizing brakes have the long shoe forward. Self energizing brakes have the long shoe facing rearward.

      The way to tell if the brakes are self-energizing is if the connector between the shoes is floating or not.

      NON-self energizing:
      two adjusting cams, one for each shoe, up near the cylinder
      bottom of the shoes sit on some sort of a fixed anchor
      long shoe forward, short shoe rearward

      Self energizing:
      single adjustment device, typically a star wheel, connecting the two shoes at the bottom
      The shoes are not anchored to the backing plate at the bottom
      short shoe forward, long shoe rearward

      The concept of self-energizing brakes is that both shoes "float" where they connect to each other, and when the cylinder is energized, the rear shoe is forced against the drum by the rotation of the drum, hence the term "self-energizing." Since the rear shoe is doing more work, it is the longer one.

      The shop has probably never seen brakes that were non self-energizing, since almost all drum brakes have been self-energizing since the mid fifties or earlier.

      The shop manual explains the correct orientation of the shoes.
      Last edited by RadioRoy; 03-06-2014, 03:24 PM.
      RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

      17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
      10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
      10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
      4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
      5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
      56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
      60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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      • #4
        Most likely the shop is just TOO used to "most" types of Brakes.
        If the Truck is a Pre 1963 the shop is wrong as RadioRoy said.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          Soooo....the "local Stude expert" is right? Thanks for your comments, RadioRoy and StudeRich!

          (This is an Oregon Champ, a 6E-7)

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah those Old "Local Stude. guys" never know anything, too old to remember I guess.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you

              Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
              Yeah those Old "Local Stude. guys" never know anything, too old to remember I guess.
              Thanks to all who weighed in on this. I never got to put my brakes back together and I haven't found the pictures I took when I took it apart on the Stude Camper I had. I changed out the front axle to a 1960 with self energizing brakes and so I knew I should check with those who had been there and done that. I did remember that if you put the shoes in the wrong position the truck won't stop very good. So I told my brother to print out these responses and hopefully he can convince the shop to do it the Stude way. thanks again guys.
              Last edited by SilverHawkDan; 03-06-2014, 07:53 PM. Reason: Spelling

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              • #8
                I don't know if your brother has a factory shop manual, which has a picture of a right rear brake assembly. The short lining shoe is clearly shown to the rear - it is the shoe which has the parking brake lever attached, which of course would be the rear shoe.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wait, Jerry says this is a '62 Champ. Over on the Truck forum it was called a '63. Big difference!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dwain G. View Post
                    Wait, Jerry says this is a '62 Champ. Over on the Truck forum it was called a '63. Big difference!
                    Actually, a 6E is a 1961 model. 1962 is 7E. This style of brake was used on 1/2 ton pick ups 2E through 7E...1956 through 1962.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Dan, Jerry, and all of the rest of you. Jerry had sent along a note clearly stating which way the shoes should be installed but when I showed it to the mechanic he stated emphatically that this was incorrect. I pressed hard to convince him to simply follow the instructions given but I got the distinct impression he was going to do it his way. This has been gnawing at me since I left the shop and decided to ask my brother Dan who has worked on Studebakers for decades. (Sorry Dan. Did I just give away your age?) I will show this thread to the mechanic to help convince him to do it the way Jerry said. I trust Jerry a lot. This mechanic. . . maybe not so much. We'll see.
                      B-T-W, the repair manual for the truck is sitting on the front seat. Any wagers whether the mechanic will read it?
                      Ed Sallia
                      Dundee, OR

                      Sol Lucet Omnibus

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                      • #12
                        B-T-W, the repair manual for the truck is sitting on the front seat. Any wagers whether the mechanic will read it?[/QUOTE]

                        You have a mechanic that can read! That's cool. The only times I have offered a manual to a shop, the "mechanics" politely refused my offer. That's why I do most of my own work.
                        "In the heart of Arkansas."
                        Searcy, Arkansas
                        1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
                        1952 2R pickup

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 52-fan View Post
                          B-T-W, the repair manual for the truck is sitting on the front seat. Any wagers whether the mechanic will read it?
                          You have a mechanic that can read! That's cool. The only times I have offered a manual to a shop, the "mechanics" politely refused my offer. That's why I do most of my own work.[/QUOTE]

                          LOL - This mechanic may NOT be able to read. . . but he can talk your ear off about all his guns. He's a nice guy but I would not want to be a coyote on his property!
                          Ed Sallia
                          Dundee, OR

                          Sol Lucet Omnibus

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                          • #14
                            Got a set of NOS lined shoes for 49 Champion. Short shoe goes in facing rear. No way to mix up because of hole for self adjuster.Manual says rear facing shoe is for backing up. Seem to work fine.

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                            • #15
                              One more update on this. I took the truck in to another shop in Tigard this morning. This is a friend of the family whom I trust but thought he was still on Mission in Honduras or I would have taken it to him in the first place. I watched as he pulled the wheels and drums and, as I suspected, the shoes were still on wrong. Brian swapped them all around so they are now correct. It turns out he has a brake shoe arcing machine. I did not find this out until he had put everything back together. Since the old shoes are still on the truck we decided to wait and arc the new shoes when I have them put on.
                              What a frustrating experience this has been. The next time I have a mechanic pull something like this on me I'm going to tell him my parts supplier, Jerry, is a biker, armed to the teeth, and hates to be contradicted. Ha ha.
                              Ed Sallia
                              Dundee, OR

                              Sol Lucet Omnibus

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