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Paint adherence problem

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  • Paint: Paint adherence problem

    On our 64 Daytona, the paint surrounding the gas filler opening is bubbling. It appears this has been caused by gas overflowing when filling the tank over time. I know I can avoid it by not fillling up. But I am about to have the panel refinished and as I understand this is a problem that has occurred with other Studebakers, does anyone have any suggestion for paint prep that would avoid this problem in the future?

    Stu Chapman

  • #2
    Originally posted by tbirdtbird
    I am not seeing it as an issue with Studes per se.
    I would call into question the adequacy of the prep of the metal and the type of paint used. The modern urethanes are as paint resistant as you can get; although I still would not spill gas on it. I use a rag under the gas nozzle when there is a chance I'll dribble gas on my paint.
    I have discussed the use of phosphoric acid on bare metal (and I mean bare metal that has been blasted) as the best prep available on this and other forums I am on but it seems few take me seriously. NO metal work is done in this shop without the use of phosphoric acid. Search for my earlier posts. I did all the body work and paint (urethane) myself on my 1931 Model A Ford 20 yrs ago and there is not a single flaw anywhere to this day, even around the gas filler. The paint looks like I just shot it. My nephew has carried on this tradition in the shop which is now his as he is self-employed. Very few shops have even heard of it, and the few that have seem compelled to wash it off after they apply it which is just plain wrong; they may as well just skip it.
    Thank you very much for this. I will pass this info on to the body shop.

    Stu Chapman

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    • #3
      When Avantis first hit the streets, many had a strip of paint missing from spilled gasoline running down the left 1/4 panel under the filler tube...saw several like that way back when.

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      • #4
        I think our modern epoxy primer would also solve that problem.
        Nick

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        • #5
          While I tend to agree with Tbirds opinion of ospho as a metal prep,( I was amazed at the difference it made on a front axle after I'd sand blasted it) I take an opposite approach to leaving it on...
          My epoxy paint manufacturer specifically states IF a phosphoric acid is used it MUST be neutralized and that means washing it off 'While it's still active/wet'. I may let it sit overnight... but I reapply the 'acid' and then wash it off (as mentioned above) after a few minutes.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by njonkman View Post
            I think our modern epoxy primer would also solve that problem.
            Nick
            Well...we're getting a bit repetitive with our comments. But, sometimes repetition helps drill in knowledge. The "acid wash" not only cleans the bare metal, but slightly etches it. It is the ultimate "clean" for bare metal...even if it slightly discolors to appear as "flash rust." The development of epoxy primers is a huge leap forward in truly protecting metal from rust and corrosion. So much so, that it reversed the previous method of placing body filler on bare metal and then priming. On good clean metal...epoxy primer adheres so well that it seals the metal from oxygen. Oxygen is the accelerator for rust and corrosion. When you exclude oxygen, you have ultimate protection. Once you lay on a foundation of epoxy primer, a good coat of catylized urethane (single stage or base/clear) should serve you well.

            Once it is sealed and painted, it is up to the owner to be careful with the gas nozzle not to bang around, scratch, and chip the finish down to bare metal.
            John Clary
            Greer, SC

            SDC member since 1975

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            • #7
              Yes, one must apply a neutralizer over any acid......or alkali. period. or you WILL have adheasion problems.
              Soda blasted metal must be neutralized by a mild acid, live vinegar. Acid washed metal must be neutralzed by an alkali or totally rinsed with water, then you prime.
              Bez Auto Alchemy
              573-318-8948
              http://bezautoalchemy.com


              "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SN-60 View Post
                When Avantis first hit the streets, many had a strip of paint missing from spilled gasoline running down the left 1/4 panel under the filler tube...saw several like that way back when.
                There is a reason for that...old fashioned non-Acrylic bug juice Lacquer!
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                • #9
                  Thanks so much for all this advice. Please keep it coming. I'll make sure my paint guy gets to see all of it.

                  Stu Chapman

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                  • #10
                    Sorry Tbird but I only learned in the last 5 years... But consider this PPG, BASF, and DuPont all have a proprietary 'acid prep' system that they sell and which all require specific neutralization steps per their tech sheets.... none of them leave the acid on.
                    Hmmmm

                    Will the epoxy stick if you leave it? Yes.
                    Will it stick as well as if it's neutralized?
                    your work. your choice.

                    The molecular change to the metal is still present even after the acid is neutralized isn't it?

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                    • #11
                      Well...it has been some time since I did my last paint job. Except for some high build (high dollar) DuPont primer that was given to me by a NASCAR team for demonstrating new equipment in their paint shop...I used a PPG system that included their prep product. At that time, it did specify a water rinse. Even after the rinse, I also used tack cloths just before spraying. That was in the early 1990's (good grief...time flies when you're having fun!) and the paint is still on.

                      On the car I applied the DuPont primer on, a coat of PPG DP epoxy primer was laid on the bare metal. Then the DuPont high build primer and then the Urethane top coat.

                      Now that I'm older, tired,lost a little energy...next time, I might just go to Maaco!
                      John Clary
                      Greer, SC

                      SDC member since 1975

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