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Surface Rust, What's Next

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  • Body: Surface Rust, What's Next

    Folks,
    I have been laboring away on my Hawk. Got it on the rotisserie, scraped all the tar (anti-rust coating) off the bottom of the body, cleaned all the residue with brake clean and finally this weekend started sandblasting the remaining paint off with Baking Soda. I chose Baking soda because I had to do this in the driveway and was trying to be somewhat environmentally safe and wanted to be able to easily clean up the leftover mess with a broom and water. As I sandblasted the underside of the car I found that there was a good bit of surface rust under the paint. See the attached pictures. I hit it pretty hard with the Soda and Walnuts but could not get it off. What should I try next? Should I go with the Aluminum Oxide or try sanding or chemical?
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    After Blasting:
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    Plan is to get it clean and then have my body guy come over and paint it before putting back on the frame while still on the rottisserie.
    Thanks for the help in advance.
    Clint

  • #2
    Personally I use blasting sand. It will work and also help loosen the soil when watered in. I may have raised the level of the backyard at the old house a couple of inches after doing several cars with sand. Just use breathing protection.

    Bob

    Comment


    • #3
      Your kinda limited to what will work and what will not work. Media blasting with just about anything other then Silica Sand will not (totally) remove rust. One problem with sand blasting is that it will weaken the metal by removing layers in both the immediate affected area and the surrounding area. Another problem (which Bob has eluded to) is the silica dust cloud. Makes for it's own problems over all with your health, really do need a filtered breathing mask. But, you may have no other choice if your not inclined to chemical removal and treatment. There are some very powerful chemical treatments, both natural and acid type, you can use that will remove rust and treat the affected areas, without exposing surrounding areas. Kinda messy, smelly (need the filtered breathing mask), rough on body parts (use heavy latex gloves). There are also spray on chemical rust converters (3M and Permatex are a couple that come to mind) that are pretty good and only requires you wire brush the crusty stuff off. Coat, dry, prime and paint.
      Last edited by Bo Markham; 02-25-2014, 09:51 AM.
      Bo

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by cbabcock View Post
        Folks,
        I have been laboring away on my Hawk. Got it on the rotisserie, scraped all the tar (anti-rust coating) off the bottom of the body, cleaned all the residue with brake clean and finally this weekend started sandblasting the remaining paint off with Baking Soda. I chose Baking soda because I had to do this in the driveway and was trying to be somewhat environmentally safe and wanted to be able to easily clean up the leftover mess with a broom and water. As I sandblasted the underside of the car I found that there was a good bit of surface rust under the paint. See the attached pictures. I hit it pretty hard with the Soda and Walnuts but could not get it off. What should I try next? Should I go with the Aluminum Oxide or try sanding or chemical?
        Clint


        If it's not much worse than your "after" photos and is accessible, I'd use a body grinder with a wire brush.

        Aluminum oxide, sand or glass bead will work, but then you'll be chasing sand trapped in seams and elsewhere forever. The nice thing about baking soda is that it rinses away so easily. Where you can't sand, you could try one of the rust-converting paints. I've tried them a time or two and wasn't imoressed, but maybe other brands work better. No....I don't remember which brands I tried.

        Comment


        • #5
          ....funny thing recently on my '62 wagon....body man told me the entire original paint on car had rust under every body panel. I paid an extra $400. for him to strip to bare metal, then BC/CC....wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it...much like pics above...GL

          Comment


          • #6
            Also had surface rust under paint of my '63 Hawk - body guy refered to it as "spider webs" - Not full suface, but rather "trails" (like a spider web) under ALL painted areas. He insisted on grinding/sanding what was accessible and , as a last resort, sand blasting areas he could not reach w/ the angle grinder.
            Paul TK

            Comment


            • #7
              I would sand blast it with a sand like what they call Black beauty or another brand name. Do not use silica sand. Bad for your health. Sand blast anywhere you soda blasted lightly too because unless you clean and eliminate all the soda inbeded in the metal you will never get paint to stick to it for long. JUst blow out every thing with a air hose untill all the sand is out of areas you dont want it afterwards. May take a few tries.

              Comment


              • #8
                A few additional suggestions

                Clint,

                Your having a rotisserie is quite a blessing. It is obvious you have spent quite a bit of time on the project and it is looking nice. We would love to follow your progress on it. Congratulations for the work to date.

                I too think the best way to get to the bottom of the pitting to prepare for paint is with blasting sand. From the pictures you have shown it appears you can roll the car out of the garage and get it outside on the drive. I can push the one John Kimbrough loaned me in and out of the garage also. You must already have a sandblaster. I bought a cheap one from Harbor Freight and have gone through about 480 pounds of fine blasting sand. I tried to blast on a warm, humid day and the sand would not flow well and I had to unclog the nozzle quite frequently. I started checking the weather channel and waited until the humidity dropped below 40% and the sand flowed well. As you probably are well aware of, sandblasting can really tax an air compressor. My 5 hp, 60 gallon compressor would come on a few seconds after the valve was opened and ran none stop until it was closed again. I got to where I would throw the breaker as soon as I had blasted for a few minutes to let it cool down then let it run until it built back up to 125 psi.







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                • #9
                  I think your getting to worked up about it now , from what I see it came rather clean and any of the extra that is still there would not be a problem if you painted it with POR-15 in fact if even works best to a rusted surface, once covered with it it sealed for life, been there done that.
                  Candbstudebakers
                  Castro Valley,
                  California


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    WOW. I am amazed by the amount of reasonable advice available on this foroum. Thank you to everyone. I guess I should have stated what my original goal was. This car will never be a back to original show car. It is a 56 Hawk that my grandfather gave me 15 years ago that has been sitting in my garage. I promissed myself I would restore it so that his great grandkids (my sisters kids) would have something one day to remember him by.

                    So all that said the ultimate goal is to make it last as long as possible on this one resoration and have a nice car to ride around every so often. Most of my other projects are Vettes.

                    While I have it apart I am also doing a few "modifications". Adding Power Steering, replacing the cut-up dash (he had installed a Ham radio in the dash), and adding 58 fins to the car.
                    Thanks again!
                    Clint

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by candbstudebakers View Post
                      I think your getting to worked up about it now , from what I see it came rather clean and any of the extra that is still there would not be a problem if you painted it with POR-15 in fact if even works best to a rusted surface, once covered with it it sealed for life, been there done that.
                      Times two. Been there

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I basically went through the same thing with my 56 Champion over the last 4 winters. <http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66381-Restoring-a-56-Champion&highlight=champion>
                        I used crushed glass and did the whole thing inside and out and did it inside my spray booth. I used to do these jobs outside with silica sand on large plastic sheets so I could salvage at least some of the sand but quit using silica sand now all together.
                        I used Chassis Saver on all my underneath parts. Hard as rock when dried. Just look at the link I gave you.
                        Nick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cbabcock View Post
                          WOW. I am amazed by the amount of reasonable advice available on this foroum. Thank you to everyone. I guess I should have stated what my original goal was. This car will never be a back to original show car. It is a 56 Hawk that my grandfather gave me 15 years ago that has been sitting in my garage. I promissed myself I would restore it so that his great grandkids (my sisters kids) would have something one day to remember him by.

                          So all that said the ultimate goal is to make it last as long as possible on this one resoration and have a nice car to ride around every so often. Most of my other projects are Vettes.

                          While I have it apart I am also doing a few "modifications". Adding Power Steering, replacing the cut-up dash (he had installed a Ham radio in the dash), and adding 58 fins to the car.
                          Thanks again!
                          Clint
                          Knowing your intentions helps with offering advice. Knowing your plans, I also vote for POR-15. Have used in it the past. Satisfied with the results. Although I didn't try painting over mine (on floor of a daily driver).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good basic info though FYI, I think one needs to determine which route they're going to take before getting too far down either road.
                            One road is MCU's which are Chassi Saver and the Paint OVER Rust products.
                            They don't play well with other paints, they sand for s*&t and will peel off in sheets with simple compressed air if applied over clean metal (without extra products and prep). Been there done that when I first started my PU resto and stripped it back off (with an air nozzle) when I got serious about painting it.
                            The MCU worked GREAT on the rusty rear end I hardly touched before applying it...

                            The other road being Epoxy Primers, some (Like Southern PolyUrethanes)) state right up front NEVER use baking soda before their product PERIOD... other chemical methods may be used IF PROPERLY neutralized or they will fail like the MCU's do over clean metal.

                            When I researched MCU's they turn up as Bridge paint more often than as an auto paint.

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                            • #15
                              Ok so now I am confused. I have both bare metal and the light rust as you see. Will the POR 15 (or something like it) work? I have used it before on a GHIA with no issues but I put it over rust and paint. I just dont want to have more rust forming under the paint like it did with the orginal paint.

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