Natural gas conversion?

[Dan White]

There was an article in the Hemmings Classic car about a year or two ago about two guys that converted their '61 Chevy to propane for the Mexican Road Race. They got most of their stuff on ebay and at swap meets. They showed the steps they used and it looked pretty cool.

[3x2stude]

I have a hotrod buddy that does conversions. He has a 53ish Mopar with a 340 on propane. Comes to local shows all the time and always runs sweet. PM me if you want his contact info. We are both in southeast Wisconsin.

JK

[Ed Gray]

Honda used to (and may still) offer CNG cars with the option of a compressing station to be installed in your garage. The cars had a high compression ratio and were (I know by experience) hard to start and, of course, 'gas' stations were, and are, few and far between. CNG was one of many 'better' ideas to save gasoline for national energy policy reasons. "The better is the enemy of the good" often looks like a good solution, usually because we don't know enough about the 'better' before doing it.

[WayneXG95]

Don't do it. The previous owner of my Hawk put it on full LPG. I now have to take it back to PETROL.
May consider duel fuel, supply is the problem.
Reminds me I must get off my arse and get this done!

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...th-Carb-Please

[StudeRich]

Greg Meyers is planning on running his Tri-Baker on propane. This is the same turbo-charged Champion engine we set records at Bonneville with. You can read the extensive blog on this project here:
http://tribaker.wordpress.com/

The last time I ran at La Carrera (2006) there was a Studebaker running some sort of LPG/Natural Gas/Propane setup:

That is as PROPANE (LPG) as it GETS! No CNG there.

[1962larksedan]

Dual Gas setups are not nearly as good or efficient as Straight Vapor. Back in the '40's, '50's and '60's there were many LPG/Gasoline conversions but obsolete now and I never heard of a CNG Dual Gas setup.

But Propane is the way to go, LPG has much higher BTU rating than CNG, higher Octane and though not everywhere, it's still way more available than Natural.

A 10.25 to 1 Compression 289 with Avanti Pistons could run very well on LPG with no vapor locking, overheating, Pinging, corrosion, Fuel System Damage or hard starting and a longer Engine and Oil Life.

I actually drove taxicabs back in 1979 that were dual fuel CNG/gasoline; this was in California just S of SF. 1971-74 Ply Satellites with 318's and I believed they were retired cabs from San Francisco to boot.

[BobWaitz]

Greg Meyers is planning on running his Tri-Baker on propane. This is the same turbo-charged Champion engine we set records at Bonneville with. You can read the extensive blog on this project here:
http://tribaker.wordpress.com/

The last time I ran at La Carrera (2006) there was a Studebaker running some sort of LPG/Natural Gas/Propane setup:

[altair]

In the 80s there were thousands of conversions done, I worked at a government inspection facility for these conversions. There were dual fuel systems, straight propane and compressed natural gas systems. There was a push by the LNG people to introduce LNG but it met with opposition and still is to day, there was some issue with the storage and the ground freezing. I never did find out if it was safety or political? During the same time the military did thousands of conversions however abandoned the project and reverted back to mostly diesel. Fleets of busses and taxis also converted and many busses still to this day operate on CNG however many taxis use hybrids. The propane conversions were short lived (10-15 years) and are now almost unheard of. At the same time people were converting to wood fuel and that created no end of problems and was promptly abandoned. For people that were interested in natural gas conversions they had to carry 4000 pounds of pressure in the tank whereas propane was under 200 pounds pressure. There was a domestic filling procedure where you could tap in to your domestic gas system and do an over night slow fill to bring your tank up to 4000 lbs because too fast would cause too much heat. Commercial filling stations were available but mostly private for taxi fleets. There was a lot if hype at the time but it died a natural death along with wood burning. Stay with normal old gasoline it will save you a ton of headaches and hassles.

['66Commander]

Thank you all very much.
I will look into it at some point. My priority is getting the body restored.

[Ed Gray]

As indicated, some fleet operators may see value in this, however, they have lots of miles to drive, have central fueling facilities, trained staff mechanics, and routes that can make it work.

I think what might be best for collector cars would be to upgrade the fuel system to E-85 specs, which would slow the destruction of our cars' fuel systems. I had a Jeep that was built to E-85 specs and I could put any gasoline in it and it would work fine. I would put E-85 in it sometimes, and it had more pickup, but poorer gas mileage. I guess this would cost around $1500 for my Avanti II doing all the work myself. Availability of ethanol free gasoline is problematic where I live.

[dictator27]

I did propane conversions for a number of years. A proper conversion requires a compression ratio of about 10:1 to get the maximum benefit from the propane. The exhaust heatriser should be removed/blocked open and the exhaust crossover passage in the intake manifold blocked off with propane type intake manifold gaskets. The distributor advance curve needs modification - more advance at idle, less at full throttle. If the engine is rebuilt, DO NOT use chrome piston rings. They will never seat properly. It is the carbon in gasoline that causes wear on cylinder walls. Propane is virtually carbon free (3%) so cylinder wear is basically eliminated.

One of our customers had a Ford Econoline with a 302 that had close to 500,000 miles on a proper propane build. At that mileage the engine was torn down to see what wear was evident. In a word -none. The crosshatch pattern on the cylinder walls was still evident. There was no wear to speak of. Oil will come out of the engine almost as clean as it went in. Oil specifically formulated for propane engines should be used.

The most expensive piece of a conversion is the tank. Tank capacity should be at least 10% more than the gas tank. If it is in the trunk, the relief valve must be vented to the outside and the fill and spit valves should also be externally mounted. A vent should be cut in the trunk floor at the lowest point in the trunk because propane is heavier than air.

The unit that converts the propane from liquid to gas is heated by hot water from the outlet line of the heater core. Using the heater inlet line will result in greatly reduced heat in the car.

Unless you are planning to use the car a lot, it will take years to get your money back. Propane conversions are much better suited to high use vehicles. The truck mentioned above was in use 24/7/365 - the oil was changed once a week. (As an aside, it had a Studebaker V8 overdrive transmission in it.)

Terry

[Mike Van Veghten]

Heavy tank, takes up lots-a room, a very clean engine when tuned correctly.
Is it worth the work, cost, and loss of space and additional weight...?

Mike

[DEEPNHOCK]

Lot's to read up on the subject....

http://tinyurl.com/Google-LPG-Conversion-Kits

['66Commander]

How hard would be be to convert it to LPG?

[StudeRich]

Dual Gas setups are not nearly as good or efficient as Straight Vapor. Back in the '40's, '50's and '60's there were many LPG/Gasoline conversions but obsolete now and I never heard of a CNG Dual Gas setup.

But Propane is the way to go, LPG has much higher BTU rating than CNG, higher Octane and though not everywhere, it's still way more available than Natural.

A 10.25 to 1 Compression 289 with Avanti Pistons could run very well on LPG with no vapor locking, overheating, Pinging, corrosion, Fuel System Damage or hard starting and a longer Engine and Oil Life.