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1956 Champion Starter Motor problem......

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  • Electrical: 1956 Champion Starter Motor problem......

    Last edited by Roadoilers; 01-31-2014, 06:31 AM. Reason: missing data

  • #2
    WELCOME!!! Check the ring gear on the flywheel. It may have some snaggled (boogered, worn, ate up etc..) teeth. It can be fixed.

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    • #3
      Thanks Son O Lark, I forgot to mention the car is manual transmission, the flywheel ring gear has a few shiny teeth, none missing, I assumed that was from the bendix hitting them,

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      • #4
        I'm curious, is it hard to find SAE (English Standard ) wrenchs in the UK? I know you've been metric for quite a while now.---- I don't know if the bendix can be lubed on the inside or not (Or if it would even help). Also did the new bendix have same number of teeth and same distance when extended? (Same as the old one)----It's worth the money to find a set of parts and service manuals. These are also on CD-ROM now for a nominal cost. Also be sure to join the SDC if you haven't yet. There are tons of venders and expert advice for you in each club magazine issued.
        Last edited by Son O Lark; 01-31-2014, 08:25 AM.

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        • #5
          I don't have an answer to your problem but I love your screen name-"Roadoilers" Absolutely terrific! Welcome to the forum & I'm sure someone will come up with help to your problem.
          59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
          60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
          61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
          62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
          62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
          62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
          63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
          63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
          64 Zip Van
          66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
          66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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          • #6
            I don't have a specific answer but I will give you my offerings. I do believe that MBG 4103 is the correct listing for a 56 six cylinder 12 volts. When the starter is engaged it needs to fit nearly perfect in the ring gear with about .010 - .017 clearance between the bendix and the flywheel. Firstly ensure you have the correct bolts, they have collars that fit with minimal clearance through the starter motor housing, standard bolts off the shelf may cause problems because of the required close fit. There are two basic gear diameters one just under one inch and the other just over both with 9 teeth. There are a number of different snout lengths that are interchangeable. The tag on the motor body does not assure the all the components are correct. Lengths of snouts can vary between standard, automatic, four speed, six cylinder, V8, and some trucks and many can be mixed and matched. You may have to do some fiddly measuring to determine the location of the starter gear relative to the ring gear. I don't know how far you want to go with this but if you made a template of the bell housing and bolted it up to the block and mounted the starter to it you would be able to see exactly where the bendix is located. The assembly must be very close or it wouldn't have fit and started in the first place, it could be as simple as the incorrect housing bolts. If the ring gear was replaced on to the flywheel it could be off a little and no starter will ever fit. Best of luck Dave British Columbia

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            • #7
              My thought exactly, I think you have an Automatic Trans. Starter extension Housing, and I would think that the Armature SHAFT length would vary as well.
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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              • #8
                Just ask for someone here on the forum to sell you a working used starter that is known to them to fit your engine and trans properly. A good place to get help here. It ain't gonna cost you nothin near 500. Your other 2 may be configured wrong and make sure you have the correct bolts to install it. cheers
                Last edited by jimmijim8; 02-01-2014, 05:52 AM.
                sigpicAnything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

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                • #9
                  Check your engine serial number to make sure it is what it's supposed to be.

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                  • #10
                    My guess? (and rank guess it is, too) Maybe the engine was changed for a 185 from a '55 car, and a six-volt ring gear installed. Six volt cars had a coarser pitch to the ring gear teeth. The other suggestions about it maybe being a starter for an automatic drive car are also good ideas.

                    I suggest you take some careful measurements: pitch of ring gear teeth (maybe press a piece of modeling clay into the gear, and measure that?), depth between face of rear engine plate and the front face of the ring gear itself, and depth of starter drive gear relative to its mounting face in both retracted and extended positions.

                    If the ring gear is damaged on its front face, it can be removed and flipped over. I have done this trick with great success.
                    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                    • #11
                      Hi again, thanks guys for your input, It appears that I do have the wrong bolts. I also checked my engine number 135956 which is listed as a 1941 champion 3G 170ci? my head casting number 536180 is listed as 1955-56 studebaker. Can this be correct?

                      I fitted the starter again and the car started first turn but it did not start the second turn of the key, just the starter bendix spinning, I removed the starter to find that the bendix teeth had been pushed into the bendix housing with just about 3/8" of the teeth still visible. I stripped the starter and just pulled back on the bendix housing and the teeth became fully exposed again, yet they wont push down again, (I know they are not supposed to do this) somethings not right......it seems that the flywheel is throwing the bendix back at such a great force that the bendix gets stuck and can't move forward to engage the flywheel the next turn of the key.

                      I wonder if my engine is right for the car as that could explain the wrong starter motor, unless the 3G has the same starter motor. Also the snout on both my starter motors is 2 Im a bit lost now....Happy to buy bolts or a known good starter.

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                      • #12
                        The cylinder head number is correct for a '56 engine, but where did you get that engine number? From the position shown in this pic? Maybe you didn't get all the numbers. (Click on pic to enlarge)

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                        • #13
                          a '41 engine would be configured with a 6 volt ring gear unless someone matched things correctly. Chances are very good that you have mis-matched parts.......double-check the engine number....

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                          • #14
                            Hi, I checked the engine number, as shown on Darwin G's pic and yes that is where the number is stamped, I confirm that it is a 6 digit code number and not a 7 digit number, it is very clear, there is no seventh number before of after, I attach a pic. I also got some other casting numbers, right behind the distributor is the number J616 and just forward of this and a bit lower down is the cast number 533870-6
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                            I know it is only a drawing that Darwin G put up, but my starter is on the same side as the distributor, (not shown in that pic).

                            Thanks everyone for their input, I hope my problem can be resolved with all your knowledge. Im happy to post pics of the two starters that I have been using, although one of them is shot to peices now, I am afraid to keep trying the other in case I break that one as well.

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                            • #15
                              I really do not know what starter you really need but I do have 6 and 12 volt starters auto and stick, Also to top it off I have 4 cars that will be going to the UK in the next month all Studebakers and arrangements could be made to ship them in one of the cars, I could ship a number of starters that way you would have a few to pick from and work with, I sell all starters as cores for $50.00 each and I know the bolts used in the later one are special and make a difference not sure if they are the same bolts as your model. if interested let me know.....Bob
                              Candbstudebakers
                              Castro Valley,
                              California


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