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  • Fuel System: fuel pump rebuild

    I bought a rebuild kit for the fuel pump for my 55 President V-8 and am unsure on how to disassemble the diaphragm assembly. The kit provides the diaphragm, but the assembly has to come apart to install it. As usual, I'm not impressed with the instructions that came with the kit, as it doesn't have diagrams to identify parts, so you are never sure which piece they are referring to by which term. Instructions say the shaft has to be pressed out, but I can't see how this is to be done. The spring end of the shaft is like a nail head with a small [approx. 1/4 inch] washer under, which holds the larger washers over the top of the spring. On the other end the shaft has a rivit type head, then an approx. 3/4 inch washer, then the 1-3/4 inch saucer, then the diaphragm. Can someone tell me what comes apart, or am I running into a pump that was previously rebuilt with an assembly that doesn't come apart. Kit came from John Plaskin. Thanks.

  • #2
    Here's a step-by-step for a similar carb.
    http://www.428cobrajet.com/how-to-fuel-pump
    D 'N Q RACE ENGINES

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    • #3
      The secret is you have to drill out the small center of the recessed hole in the aft side of the housing to get access to drive the Pin out of the Front side of the Pump with a very small drift punch that you may have to grind thinner to get enough depth.
      DO NOT allow the punch to wedge in the hole... don't ask!

      This trick is about the most difficult to guess how to do without help, you came to the right place.
      The Carter "X" Pump for Ford and Chrysler shown in post #2 is a bit different and very similar to the High Output one used on R1 and R2 Engines.

      John Plaskin? Is he a Canadian maybe?
      Last edited by StudeRich; 01-04-2014, 08:46 PM.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner
      SDC Member Since 1967

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      • #4
        The old diaphragm assembly probably included the spring and stem seal; and wasn't meant to come apart.
        If you want to use the original spring, you have to take the old diaphragm assembly apart. This is shown at: http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/...lpumprebm.html .
        It sounds like your kit has a diaphragm with only the "stem", (which you call "shaft"). These kits are common. A lot of them ultimately came from here: http://www.maritimedragracing.com/an...rts_cellar.htm . Does it also have rivets to retain the valves?
        A lot of people have had trouble with the stem seal on these kits. The formed washer shown in the above tutorial works better than the flat washer sometimes in the kits. I think the real problem is that there is no support, (bearing), at the upper end of the stem.
        Good luck with your rebuild. Mike

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        • #5
          Thanks to all who replied to my questions. John Plaskin is Cowboy John's Auto Parts, I found him on the internet when I was trying to find a kit for my Stude water pump, which I also purchased but didn't install yet. I believe he is in New York. My problem is that the fuel pump kit supplies a new diaphragm [rubber piece only], but has no metal parts of the diaphragm assembly except the spring- no new stem included. Everything in my pump looks like what is shown in the link Mike included. The end of the stem on the spring side is like a nail head with a small washer underneath. I can slide the spring down the stem along with all the parts at the top of the spring [including the small washer], leaving the nail type head exposed. At this point it looks like the diagram in your link that shows vice grips on the stem holding the spring down. Do I have to grind the nail head off, then thread the stem to take a nut in order to reuse the old stem?

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          • #6
            That's not one of the "Cellar" kits. They have a new stem staked to the new diaphragm, and are proud of it! See page 3 of their web site above.
            Since you have to reuse your old stem, don't damage it like in the tutorial. Does "John " offer to install the stem, if you send it to him?
            If it isn't already threaded, and designed to take apart, I wouldn't attempt it. Once you grind the rivet head on the diaphragm end off, there won't be enough left to cut threads, will there?
            I have considered having some threaded stems made for the "R" series pumps; but that's in the distant future. It may be possible to adapt threaded stems from a different pump with a better stem seal, too. Your stem is probably different from the "R" stem.
            You may want to consider buying a new pump, at this point. Save all the old parts. If a good quality pump isn't available for the Stude, a Mopar pump can be adapted. The actuating arm has to be bent; if you can't reuse your old one. Arm length from the pivot to the stem, is different between the "R" and Mopar pumps; but may match on pumps with the smaller diameter diaphragm. See the articles at: http://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx4.html#Mfuelpump .
            Mike
            Last edited by Mike; 01-05-2014, 09:41 AM.

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            • #7
              Just checked on the net for new fuel pump. Studebaker International shows the pump for $50.00, StudebakerParts.com shows the same pump for $79.00. I wonder why such a price difference. I will save everything from my old pump. There is an address for someone who supposedly will redo the diaphragm assembly listed on the instruction sheet that came with the kit, but at this point I probably will just go ahead and order a new pump. Then later I can deal with this one & perhaps end up with a spare. The instruction sheet that came with the kit says not to grind the rivit head on the diaphragm end for the reason you stated. Rather. they want to slide an 11/16" deep socket over the stem and press the diaphragm saucers off the stem. I don't even see how this is possible, as you can't remove the spring from the stem because of the nail type head on the end of the stem. As far as I can see you would have to grind the nail head to remove the spring, then find a way to hold the assembly together after replacing the diaphragm, and probably end with a unit that wouldn't pump.

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              • #8
                Hey Mike:
                I was so taken up with the diaphragm assembly on this pump that I didn't check what else the kit contained. Looking at it today I see the valves that came in the kit are larger than the ones in my pump. Checking my mechanic's manual, it says the valves are not replaceable. The manual identifies the pump as a Carter M2211S. My pump looks exactly like the one in the pictures in the manual, but the number on the casing is M0970. Looks like someone swapped a different pump sometime in the past? Any ideas as to what this pump may belong to? I checked with my local parts store and they do show a listing for my car, and the Carter # they gave me was M2211. However, although they list it, they didn't have it in their warehouse, and therefore may not be able to get it. They are checking to see if they can track one down.

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                • #9
                  The only number I could find was M2211. Please see: http://www.studebaker-info.org/parts/NEW/fuelp.txt . Some people have stopped the oil leaks at the pivot pin by coating the exposed ends of the pin with JB Weld.
                  Rockauto has five Airtex 4227, in stock, for $33.89 plus shipping, if your local source can't get one.
                  The other two part #'s you mention may be obsolete #'s. The Carter M0970 that was on your Stude could be a Mopar pump. If it hasn't been modified, by bending the actuating arm, it won't get a full stroke; and might not supply enough fuel at high speed. Compare the arm to my drawing at: http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/...p/R2modFP.html . You might not want to rebuild it, or you may want to modify the arm, first.
                  I think, years ago, complete valve body assemblies were available for rebuilders. So they didn't replace the valves. As you can see from the tutorials, it's no big deal.
                  Mike
                  Last edited by Mike; 01-06-2014, 04:36 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Stay away from replacement Airtex fuel pumps for Studebaker V8's. These are becomming famous for being the most unrelible fuel pump ever!

                    Expect your engine bay to be sprayed with fuel and oil just before you get stuck on the side of the road.

                    Strangly, the Airtex replacement pumps for Champions seem to work just fine.

                    Chris.

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                    • #11
                      You should search the forum for fuel pump discussions. There is a lot of back and forth on going with electric fuel pumps because of mechanical pump problems. The Airtex pump has a high probability of causing a knocking noise. Your best bet is to get a rebuilt Carter original from someone who knows what they are doing. Ideally the rubber parts will be alcohol resistant for today's gas. I, luckily, have access to no ethanol gas.
                      Norm

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by over50 View Post
                        You should search the forum for fuel pump discussions. There is a lot of back and forth on going with electric fuel pumps because of mechanical pump problems. The Airtex pump has a high probability of causing a knocking noise. Your best bet is to get a rebuilt Carter original from someone who knows what they are doing. Ideally the rubber parts will be alcohol resistant for today's gas. I, luckily, have access to no ethanol gas.
                        Norm
                        I agree 100%

                        The most reliable option is a rebuilt original Carter pump with a quality kit. They are widely available so this should never really be a problem.

                        Chris.

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                        • #13
                          Knowing the TRUTH will set you free!
                          StudeRich
                          Second Generation Stude Driver,
                          Proud '54 Starliner Owner
                          SDC Member Since 1967

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                          • #14
                            Clifford,
                            Please check your messages.
                            Mike

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mike View Post
                              Clifford,
                              Please check your messages.
                              Mike
                              Hi Mike:
                              I've been following this discussion, and have sent a number of e-mails out to suppliers advertising in Turning Wheels to see if I can find someone who sells rebuilt Carter M2211. Today I checked another Stude V-8 parts engine locally, but the pump on it had no name- all I could find was the number 4512, so I don't know what make it is- I guess it's an aftermarket brand of some sort. If someone knows a supplier that sells rebuilt Carter M2211 perhaps they would join this discussion. Thanks
                              Clifford

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