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  • Engine: valve guides

    Are the valve guides on the 64 289 heads a press in like a big block chev or do you need to take them in to be cut in?

  • #2
    All Stude V-8 valve guides are a press fit. Push old ones out, press new ones back in.

    Somewhere I have a tool I made up to use an air hammer type tool, no problems.

    Mike

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    • #3
      Mike. I should have all the tools needed if their a press fit. I haven't pulled the motor down yet to see what is needs. May just need a valve job and new seals. Car has sat for a lot of years and smoke bad out the left bank and I mean bad but runs like a top.

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      • #4
        There will be differing opinions on this, but on all my heads, I toss the umbrella seals and cut the guides for positive seals.

        This, plus a half-thou more clearance on the exhaust guide, hard exhaust seats and oiling problems are a thing of the past, especially on cars/trucks driven long high speed highway miles.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

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        • #5
          swvalcon wrote -
          ""Car has sat for a lot of years and smoke bad out the left bank and I mean bad but runs like a top.""

          This comment does not compute....
          If it smokes, it isn't....running as well as it should. Whether it need just stem seals or redoing the guides...piston rings (?), smoking and oil consumption and "running like a top" do NOT go together...!

          I basically agree with what Jack says about the seals, though not as big a deal in my book for a cruiser. But I'd recommend basically prepairing the guide to it's proper diameter per the stem diameter, then put a spirol knurl in the guide, then rehone it back to its proper diameter. The knurl should stop about .250" before the bottom of the guide. This helps keep oil from going all the way to the cylinder while still oiling the stem properly.
          When using positive seals and properly tight stem to guide clearance, not enough oil always gets to the stem. But with this "thread" cut into the wall of the guide, it helps greatly to oil the stem.

          And be carefull if you open up the guide clearance by too much. Doing this "can" lead to a pounded valve to seat seal. If the valve contacts the seat at a different point each time it closes....you can imagine what happens to the seat/valve over a few thousand miles..!

          Mike

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          • #6
            That was something I had thought about to. It may just need a knurl on the guides and be fine. Motor only has 70,000miles on it so not sure if I need to do the hard seats or not. Most of those where put on when you could get leaded regular. It would be nice to not ever have to open it up again for a lot of years. Mike I'am sure it would run better if it didn't smoke but it doesn't miss and runs so smooth you can hardly tell it's running. If it wasn't for the smoke and oil consumtion I would be happy with it the way it is. Seems to have plenty of power going down the road and sounds nice out the glass packs. I tried to run some sea foam though it but didn't help much. Would guess at the very least it has some stuck rings and the valve seals I'am sure fell apart in the frist mile after it was started after sitting so long. THe guy I got it from Brent AKA malaca here on the site posted it on u tube when he frist stared it.

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            • #7
              My 62 GT was smoking similar to yours and after I installed new valve seals, no hint of any more smoke, some seals were missing, some broken, others hard as a rock.
              Frank van Doorn
              Omaha, Ne.
              1962 GT Hawk 289 4 speed
              1941 Champion streetrod, R-2 Powered, GM 200-4R trans.
              1952 V-8 232 Commander State "Starliner" hardtop OD

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              • #8
                Agree w/ '41 FRANK' - Check the valve seals first. If the seals are hard or cracking try replacing them before tearing down the engine. The seals can be replaced without removing the heads by using a mechanical "holder" (similar to the one shown in the Shop Manual) or an adapter to use air pressure (should have about 100PSI). If the air will not hold the valve in place, then they need to be serviced - A full head rebuild might be the way to go then.
                Paul TK

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                • #9
                  I've got all the stuff to pull the spings on the car to put on new seals. Part of it is it leaks so bad that I dont want to park it on my driveway and have to park it out back by my shop in the dirt. Also I'am in the process of restoreing this and will have the motor out shortly to do the frame so thought that would be the time to fix whats wrong with it. I would hate to get it all done and painted to look like new and have it going down the smoking like its on fire.

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                  • #10
                    Just don't get carried away. A lot of things that work great on a performance or racing type engine are not necessarily what you want on a street engine.

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                    • #11
                      Bronze guides are a good thing as they conduct heat away from the valve better than steel. Also they don't rust and stick the valves on a long stored or infrequently driven engine. I never pound in valve guides despite what the shop manual says. The ends can and often do peen too tight if done that way. A press works well, but it is recommended to check the fit of the valve even on new guides. Any time you replace a guide, the seats must me reground as they are piloted on the hole in the guide . Even new guides can benefit from knurling as the pockets left behind help hold lubrication.
                      Bez Auto Alchemy
                      573-318-8948
                      http://bezautoalchemy.com


                      "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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                      • #12
                        I thought most of the newer guides came with the kurling already in them. I'am not a big fan of bronze guides even though they do last longer. You have run them so loose to keep them from sticking. If I put in new guides it will get a valve job and new postive seals. The cast iron guides should last as long as I will ever need them. I've got both the manual tool and one that goes on a air hammer to install guides and a reamer to clean up any rough spots and a tool that goes on a air drill to cut the top of the guide for the new seals.

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                        • #13
                          swvalcon -

                          Reread my post about the stem oiling...!

                          The "knurling" operation ISN'T to make the guide smaller, the proper guide diameter needs to do this. The "knurling" is just to get oil into the guide with a properly tight diameter on the valve stem to help keep the seats in good condition.

                          And if an extra .0002/.0003" is too loose for you (shouldn't be..!), then the above comments about putting new seals on old used guides should leave you laughing..! I'm not saying this is a bad thing on a car that doesn't get driven much, but for "proper" engine performance, new seals on 50,000+ mile old guides is just a band-aid rather than more proper (yes, expensive) work.

                          If new "Stude" guides don't fit the bill dimaeter wise (many/most don't)...then a bronze insert is your main option. Other materials are out there, but overall the thicker bronze insert with another .0002" clearance and an oil path as described above is much more desireable to just too loose a guide with new seals.

                          That's my nickles worth.

                          Mike

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                          • #14
                            Mike. Thats why I thought most of the new replacement cast guides made today came with a knurling already in them was so they had the right amount of stem oil when you put on a posative valve seal on them. At least most that I remember putting in had them. I worked with my dad in the early 90's at his engine rebuild shop and put in tons of replacement guides and seats. He didnt beleive that highly on bronze guides and I guess it rubbed off. He felt if the stock head lasted for 100,000 miles the cast guide should be just fine on a rebuild to.

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                            • #15
                              Re: bronze valve guides - Be aware that they are usually not machined for "standard" (original equipment) valve seals, but rather machined for positive control seals. The tech people at one of the bronze guide suppliers stated that the positive seals are NOT recommended for street driving (although there are modifications that can be made to the seals to provide some lube to the guides).
                              The positive seals, according to the supplier, are meant for engines with a large supply oil system that, in effect, floods the head with oil. Not just my opion, but that of a supplier.
                              Paul TK

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