Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Losing clutch adjustment - '64 Commander

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Clutch / Torque Converter: Losing clutch adjustment - '64 Commander

    Ok Folks...Here is the skinny. I put in a brand new clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, machined the flywheel, yadda, yadda...about a year ago. Just put in a new Dave T-Bow Mallory Unilite distributor...the old girl runs like a scalded dog. Boy am I happy!


    BUT...I have been losing my clutch adjustment. In the last month I have readjusted the linkage 3 times to eliminate "dragging" to the point where I have to shut the car off to put it in reverse. As of this morning's adjustment it works fine, again, but now I have NO free-play at the top of the pedal.

    Is my analysis correct in that I believe the throw-out bearing "fork" is slipping on the bellhousing shaft? If so, how do I know where to spin it so it is in the correct radial position prior to welding it?

    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

    D
    sigpicGood judgment is the result of experience; ...experience is the result of bad judgment.

  • #2
    The fork could be slipping (rotating) on the cross shaft inside the bellhousing, Doug, but don't jump to that conclusion just yet.

    Reference this diagram:



    1. Look at Rod #0206-29. That operates in compression. They will sometimes bend, causing a car to loose adjustment. When they finally "go," you loose all ability to control the clutch and it is engaged until the rod is replaced. (BTDT, honest; I drove my '64 hardtop home in first gear about three miles, being really careful to anticipate stops and corners so I wouldn't have to turn off the engine!)

    2. Next, check the position of the arm on the outside of Shaft #0206-1. It may be rotating slightly on that shaft, causing you to lose adjustment.

    3. Finally, check Coupling #0206-26 and Coupling Pins #0206-27. Earlier in its life, one of those pins started to fall out of the coupling on my car. It got loose enough to "hog out" the coupling over time, again causing the clutch to lose adjustment.

    In other words, look anywhere an external failure may occur, because there are several weak links in that setup. Remember, we are using these cars far longer than they were ever intended to be in service, and all those parts are starting to have served as many cycles as a New York City taxi! BP
    Last edited by BobPalma; 11-20-2013, 06:46 PM. Reason: spelling
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Bob. My intent is to go over all this external stuff, before making the decision to drop the tranny and weld the throw-out fork.

      1. 0206-29 has always had a slight bend just as the threaded portion starts. This morning while adjusting, I took note that it doesn't seem to look any worse than it was. I had a friend weld the angled tip of it due to wear then I reworked it with a file to clean it up into a nice fit into 0206-42. I did get a new 0206-35 (which was badly worn) from SI.

      2. regarding 0206-1 shaft: is that just a press/interference fit as well? I don't recall checking that during the install. If that is loose and needs to be welded, I have no idea how to position it either.

      3. During the T-10 install I don't remember specifically checking for enlarged holes in 0206-26. I did buy new pins from SI though.

      So, I will check out all the above. I'm going to get a new -29 just in case its part of the problem.

      Sure would be nice not to have to drop the tranny again!! Thanks for the input.

      D
      sigpicGood judgment is the result of experience; ...experience is the result of bad judgment.

      Comment


      • #4
        The earlier through-the-floor clutch system truly was a much simpler and more reliable setup.

        Comment


        • #5
          I wonder how hard it would be to convert the above '64 Commander to the earlier through-the-floor clutch system? Of course, if the fork is slipping on the cross shaft, this wouldn't help.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would not convert it, the suspended pedals are better in my opinion. I would expect any of the parts you need would be available from one of our vendors
            Milt

            1947 Champion (owned since 1967)
            1961 Hawk 4-speed
            1967 Avanti
            1961 Lark 2 door
            1988 Avanti Convertible

            Member of SDC since 1973

            Comment


            • #7
              The big issue for me is that if it IS the throw-out fork slipping on the shaft, I'm not sure how I can accurately locate it before welding it into position. Maybe I'll have to borrow a known GOOD one as a go by. We'll see. Thanks guys.
              sigpicGood judgment is the result of experience; ...experience is the result of bad judgment.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Doug Bowen View Post
                The big issue for me is that if it IS the throw-out fork slipping on the shaft, I'm not sure how I can accurately locate it before welding it into position. Maybe I'll have to borrow a known GOOD one as a go by. We'll see. Thanks guys.
                Yes, Doug; that is usually what you have to do....outside of buying a blueprint from The Studebaker National Museum. BP

                We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                Ayn Rand:
                "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by unclemiltie View Post
                  I would not convert it, the suspended pedals are better in my opinion. I would expect any of the parts you need would be available from one of our vendors
                  Not really! Studebaker went with the suspended pedal brake/clutch system in '61 to stay 'current'....and on the brake side of things I think the suspended pedal WAS an improvement. But as far as the clutch goes....the old 'through the frame side rail' system can't be beat for strength and simplicity. The suspended pedal clutch mechanism that Stude engineers came up with in '61 was clever, but problematical. (Then and Now)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Now you see why I always advocate using the parts books? This discussion is much more accurate and fruitful with pictures and names/numbers than it would be without it.

                    Thank you all.
                    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Old timers remember Dick Datson's fix.
                      Replace 29 and 35 with two clevises and threaded rod.
                      Robert Kapteyn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The "fork" on the inside of the bell housing isn't one piece. It's two levers separately brazed to the shaft. Also not that as the clutch disc wears down, the mechanical advantage of the levers within the pressure plate itself decreases, and it becomes harder to release the clutch, because the levers are working at an unfavorable angle. And Robert Kapteyn is right, that is a good fix. Better than new. It puts the thrust exactly on the axis of the new "rod" and eliminates a bending moment.
                        Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          IF its the shaft forks, and IF your adjustment holds for at least a bit, then the forks have not yet completely separated from the shaft. Rather one or both are beginning to come loose, thus allowing flex which make you loose adjustment.
                          In this instance, you should easily be able to relocate the forks on the shaft and then weld them in position. In fact, welding the forks better was something my friends and I always did whenever we were inside a bell housing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I had the same problem, I took everything apart thinking I was going to have to weld the clutch fork. What I found was my new high performance pressure plate had not been properly swagged. The pressure plate forks had loosened up and were badly out of adjustment. I re-adjusted it according to the shop manual, swagged and used lock tite. Been perfect ever since. This was a quality name brand part, probably a years worth of aggressive driving, but it still shouldn't have loosened up. Never did weld the fork.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Looks like I should look at my pressure plate too. Thanks for the tip. By the way, I really do like the idea of the clevis at each end of threaded rod. The loading of the threaded rod would be right down the center line of the assembly, not off to the side. I might just go that way. Anxious to see what this ends up being. D
                              sigpicGood judgment is the result of experience; ...experience is the result of bad judgment.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X