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61' T10 wide ratio

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  • Transmission: 61' T10 wide ratio

    It appears that the transmission I recently inherited, is a late 1961 wide ratio T10 4spd. I believe it is an original Studebaker unit because it has a small brass tag on one of the bolts with a "S" on it. I also believe it has the correct Chevy pattern bell housing attached, however, I don't know how to verify the it its the correct bell housing. Also, not sure if the brass "S" tag really means Studebaker. It has one groove cut into the input shaft. Are there any indicators that could prove it is an original Stude unit? I am also interested in selling it if anyone is interested.

  • #2
    Only a Studebaker Trans. has a Input Shaft this long, the "Pilot" portion is 1 7/8" along and 11/16" Dia. and the total length from the Bearing to the end is 7 Inches.
    Of course that is an uninstalled one, you won't see all 7 inches of it when in the Trans. with the nose cone installed.

    If the Clutch Housing is Cast iron with a Studebaker Casting number 7 digits, starting with 15, and has a Left Hand Starter it is a Stude. It will have a round "Tube" shaped Cast extension coming out at the Lower Right Trans. Bolt location and fit the Trans. if it is a '61 with the Chevy Case.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 10-26-2013, 04:47 PM.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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    • #3
      Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
      Only a Studebaker Trans. has a Input Shaft this long, the "Pilot" portion is 1 7/8" along and 11/16" Dia. and the total length from the Bearing to the end is 7 Inches.
      Of course that is an uninstalled one, you won't see all 7 inches of it when in the Trans. with the nose cone installed.

      If the Clutch Housing is Cast iron with a Studebaker Casting number 7 digits, starting with 15, and has a Left Hand Starter it is a Stude. It will have a round "Tube" shaped Cast extension coming out at the Lower Right Trans. Bolt location and fit the Trans. if it is a '61 with the Chevy Case.
      About the time Rich says "only a Studebaker trans has an input shaft this long,"

      Jack will say, "Not so, Rich. The AMC version of the T10 has an input shaft a full inch longer than the Stude."

      To make Rich's statement accurate,

      "Of the two T10s with the Chevy bolt pattern, the Chev is 6.5" and the Studebaker's 7.5" input shaft is the longer. Those T10s with the Ford bolt pattern, the two Ford versions 6.125"/6.5" are the shortest, Stude 7.5" is the middle and AMC 8.5" is the longest."
      PackardV8

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      • #4
        OK, how about: "Only a Studebaker has an Input Shaft this LENGTH"?
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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        • #5
          Back to the headline, has anyone ever actually verified the existence of an original equipment '61 wide-ratio Chevy pattern Studebaker T10 transmission? I haven't had that many, but they've all been close-ratio.

          Of course, over the fifty years, anything can have been swapped into anything.

          jack vines
          PackardV8

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          • #6
            Check the '59-64 parts manual on Chev pattern 4-speeds. It is clearly noted with respect to the gear ratios that only the 1st 200 had the close-ratio setup. This has been posted before!

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            • #7
              The numbers on the bell housing indicate that it is an original Studebaker part. All the numbers on the transmission indicate 1961, and the measurements of the input shaft also match up. However, there is a fair amount of rust inside. Not sure if I'm willing to attempt the rebuild, could be very costly. Might just make a custom shop stool out of it ;-)

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              • #8
                ALL 61 & 62 4-speeds have the Chevy bolt pattern. Starting in 1962 ALL Hawks had the wide ratio gears, the first 200 Daytonas had the close ratio gears then switched to the wide ratio gears. The shop/parts manuals only list the close ratio as being used in 1961. With that said, look at the splines on the input shaft if it has a groove (or ring) cut thru the splines (going around the shaft) it's a wide ratio, if doesn't have any groves it's a close ratio transmission. Hope the helps.

                Joe

                Originally posted by WCP View Post
                Check the '59-64 parts manual on Chev pattern 4-speeds. It is clearly noted with respect to the gear ratios that only the 1st 200 had the close-ratio setup. This has been posted before!
                Last edited by irish; 10-31-2013, 02:24 PM.
                sigpic

                1962 Daytona
                1964 Cruiser
                And a few others

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Champ60 View Post
                  The numbers on the bell housing indicate that it is an original Studebaker part. All the numbers on the transmission indicate 1961, and the measurements of the input shaft also match up. However, there is a fair amount of rust inside. Not sure if I'm willing to attempt the rebuild, could be very costly. Might just make a custom shop stool out of it ;-)
                  Does it still turn and how much do you want for it?

                  Dave.

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                  • #10
                    The main case is stamped "M61-2" which I believe is December 6, 1961 second shift. The input shaft has one groove cut. Both parts of the case and shift plate have matching dates of 6-61. It does not turn right now, but it appears that my dad may have completely rebuilt it gears and all. The teeth still show tooling marks and are not visibly worn. Considering it needs to be rebuilt I'd consider $250 OBO.

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                    • #11
                      I can also confirm that there are wide ratio Chevy pattern T10s. Today I checked the two Chevy pattern units that I have and one was a 2.20 (Close Ratio) first gear and the other was a 2.54 (Wide Ratio) first gear. The 2.54 (Wide Ratio) had the same tag with an S on the side cover as was mentioned in original post. Another thing that surprised me was that the wide ratio trans did not have the single groove cut in the input shaft. I checked two Ford pattern T10s and they both had this groove. So I wouldn't use the groove as a positive indicator of a wide ratio gear set on the early T10s.

                      Nick

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                      • #12
                        A few years ago on a transmission website (I can't for the life of me remember the name of the site) stated how you could identify the first gear ratios of T-10's by the number of grooves on the input shaft. They had an asterisk by the statement and it said that a few of the earliest non 2.20 first gear transmissions may have been manufactured without any grooves. I have owned several T-10's over the years (I still own a few) and had never ran across any like that, so until now I hadn't really believed it.

                        Originally posted by 61Lark View Post
                        I can also confirm that there are wide ratio Chevy pattern T10s. Today I checked the two Chevy pattern units that I have and one was a 2.20 (Close Ratio) first gear and the other was a 2.54 (Wide Ratio) first gear. The 2.54 (Wide Ratio) had the same tag with an S on the side cover as was mentioned in original post. Another thing that surprised me was that the wide ratio trans did not have the single groove cut in the input shaft. I checked two Ford pattern T10s and they both had this groove. So I wouldn't use the groove as a positive indicator of a wide ratio gear set on the early T10s.

                        Nick
                        Last edited by irish; 11-02-2013, 09:32 PM.
                        sigpic

                        1962 Daytona
                        1964 Cruiser
                        And a few others

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