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Any tips?

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  • Electrical: Any tips?

    I've installed one of Dave T's Mallory units, (60' 259) car started right up, great unit that is..

    When I installed the dizzy, its fell into place with the rotor at the 10 o'clock position.. I lined everything up, indexed the spark plug wires on the cap.. everything cool, car fired right up, sounds good.. until.. I started to fine tune the timing, my vacuum advance is up against the firewall and I still need to move it more.. I am trying to get the rotor to the 7 or 8 o'clock position..

    Does anyone have any surefire ways to get a dizzy to drop in position where you want it?

    Thanks all!

  • #2
    Just move the plug wires around one position and turn the dizzy appropriately. If you still don't have enough room, move the plug wires one more position.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Comment


    • #3
      Several tricks will work as Dick said and it will run. However, I like to do it the correct way, not to confuse anyone who has to work on the Car later.

      You crank it until the Rotor Points straight forward, checking for #1 or #6 Compression Stroke as you do that, finger over open #1 spark plug hole, to get it on #1, also make sure to check that the "IGN" mark 4 degrees Right (1/4 In.) of the UDC Timing Mark aligns with the pointer, hand turn the Engine using it's Fan Belt until it does.
      Then plug all the wires in the Cap in the book (Shop Manual) location. That is going counterclockwise through the Firing Order with #1 straight forward. The Vacuum Advance will then point straight to the right fender.

      When you route the Plug Wires over the Left Valve Cover, you separate # 5 and #7 from each other putting 5 through the forward clip and 7 in the rear clip, they can cross, but not run parallel to each other to prevent the fields from cross firing on the two Plugs that fire next to each other.
      Last edited by StudeRich; 09-04-2013, 07:51 PM.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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      • #4
        Thank you Dick.. I never thought of doing that..

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
          Several tricks will work as Dick said and it will run. However, I like to do it the correct way, not to confuse anyone who has to work on the Car later.

          You crank it until the Rotor Points straight forward, checking for #1 or #6 Compression Stroke as you do that, finger over open #1 spark plug hole, to get it on #1, also make sure to check that the "IGN" mark 4 degrees Right (1/4 In.) of the UDC Timing Mark aligns with the pointer, hand turn the Engine using it's Fan Belt until it does.
          Then plug all the wires in the Cap in the book (Shop Manual) location. That is going counterclockwise through the Firing Order with #1 straight forward. The Vacuum Advance will then point straight to the right fender.

          When you route the Plug Wires over the Left Valve Cover, you separate # 5 and #7 from each other putting 5 through the forward clip and 7 in the rear clip, they can cross, but not run parallel to each other to prevent the fields from cross firing on the two Plugs that fire next to each other.
          Ok, I will try this.. thank you

          Comment


          • #6
            OK Dave you are welcome.

            Since your Dist. probably already is down all the way in the wrong clocking position in relation to #1 firing pos. you most likely will have to "re-stab" it.

            The easy way to do that is notice that the spiral gear on the Dist. shaft that meshs with the Cam causes the Rotor to turn about 1 Plug tower or a bit less so try to position it a bit off of straight forward so that as it drops it is forward, usually it will only go down 1 or 2 inches from the block.

            Since there is a screwdriver-like male "blade" on the end of the Dist. shaft it will only align to the Oil Pump slot in 2 places, so what you do is, have a helper crank the engine with the Coil wire removed from the Coil to prevent starting, and push gently down on the Dist. while that is happening until it drops all the way down.
            The engine only needs a short burst on the starter to do that.

            Then loosely tighten the hold down clamp and bolt and set your timing with a Timing Light with the Vacuum Advance disconnected and plugged or taped.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
              OK Dave you are welcome.

              Since your Dist. probably already is down all the way in the wrong clocking position in relation to #1 firing pos. you most likely will have to "re-stab" it.

              The easy way to do that is notice that the spiral gear on the Dist. shaft that meshs with the Cam causes the Rotor to turn about 1 Plug tower or a bit less so try to position it a bit off of straight forward so that as it drops it is forward, usually it will only go down 1 or 2 inches from the block.

              Since there is a screwdriver-like male "blade" on the end of the Dist. shaft it will only align to the Oil Pump slot in 2 places, so what you do is, have a helper crank the engine with the Coil wire removed from the Coil to prevent starting, and push gently down on the Dist. while that is happening until it drops all the way down.
              The engine only needs a short burst on the starter to do that.

              Then loosely tighten the hold down clamp and bolt and set your timing with a Timing Light with the Vacuum Advance disconnected and plugged or taped.
              Thanks again StudeRich, I've learned a lot from reading your posts and comments!
              Dave

              Comment


              • #8
                The distributor I received from Dave Thibeault seems to have a bit of a bend in it. I'm gonna pull it and use my old one, again. Two steps forward, one step back.
                Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by warrlaw1 View Post
                  The distributor I received from Dave Thibeault seems to have a bit of a bend in it. I'm gonna pull it and use my old one, again. Two steps forward, one step back.
                  A "bend in it" ???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for pointing out the cross firing of the #5 and#7 plugs on Studebaker V8 engines.
                    #7 plug can fire from voltage induced by #5.
                    When #5 is ready to fire #7 is on its way to the top and if it fires from induction from #5's wire it is firing the piston backwards.
                    This is very evident with the higher voltages from the electronic distributors but also with the original distributors.
                    This was pointed out by Studebaker in a 1951 or 52 service bulletin.
                    A lady brought her Avanti in one time complaining about her car stalling at stop lights.
                    It turned out to be this cross firing from wires that were not in the ignition shielding insulators.
                    I routed the ignition wires correctly and the problem went away.
                    When I was at a zone meet ,I looked at all the V8 engines from cars with the hood open and saw that over 50% of the engines
                    had the #5 and #7 wires routed together instead of #3 and #7 under one clip and #1 and #5 under the other.
                    When I pointed that out to the owners they looked at me like I was nuts. (partly right).
                    Even our local Studebaker expert told me it was nonsense.
                    I will try to find the service bulletin from Studebaker and post the pictures.
                    Robert Kapteyn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It wobbles. And it won't advance as far as the original. Nasty thing to find out one week form the PSMCDRs, but luckily my original is still in pretty good shape.
                      Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bob, (rkapteyn) thanks for noting that, now people will not entirely think I am nuts!

                        I still remember the Bulletin (Tech Tip) that I believe was from Belden one of the Premiere, long time Wire/Cable Mfg's. that makes NAPA Parts that warned of that for all engines that have 2 Cyl.'s firing next to each other, I think that includes many including Millions of Chevies.
                        StudeRich
                        Second Generation Stude Driver,
                        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rich and Bob may have just solved one of the riddles I'm faced with. Tuner and I worked on my car for two hours last night and it still is wonky. Sounds like a cross fire, especially with the flame thrower coil. Will go lift my hood as soon as it stops raining. I hope this is it ))
                          Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yup. I snuck out and looked. #5 and #7 were parallel and squeezed beside each other in the wire holders tighter than three people in the back seat of a C/K. I've re-routed them, put the charger on and when the roads dry up I'll see if that made the difference. If it did, the problem stumped me, a very reputable tuner and all the others who've tried to tune this car. Didn't stump the SDC forum , though.
                            Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In Smokey Yunick's "Power Secrets" he makes a big deal about never routing plug wires parallel to each other to avoid inducing cross fire, and I think even mentions the possibility of causing detonation by firing the wrong cylinder at a bad, very advanced time. I'm unclear how a spark 90 degrees too early would have anything hot and squeezy enough to fire, but if it can bite Smokey it sure as heck can bite me. Perhaps spark 2, 3, or 4 in a multispark ignition , might be in the right place at the wrong time.

                              I'm thinking the wire type with spiral metal core >might< be more resistant to inductive crossfire, but that's a big guess.

                              Those engines with all the wires packed neatly in a cover must have had issues from time to time.
                              http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3128/...30b96978dc.jpg

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