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52 Champion, loose wire under hood. Where does it go.

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  • #31
    My guess would be that the mystery wire is the overdrive kickdown wire, and it should go to the (+) terminal on the coil, which should also be connected to the distributor. The (-) terminal on the coil should go to the ignition switch. A coil connected backwards could lead to a high-speed miss.

    Other possible causes of high-speed miss: weak points spring, or bushing too tight on moving arm of points; insufficient fuel supply to carb; restricted exhaust system.

    I saw one Champion one time, that the seat for the float valve in the carb had worked loose, and unscrewed to the point that the valve was holding the float down. The float valve was closed tight, but enough fuel seeped around the threads on the seat for it to flood out at idle, yet when you tried to drive it, it would burn up the fuel in the bowl and quit from fuel starvation. That was real hard to find, but a simple twist of a screwdriver to fix.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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    • #32
      Gord mentions another good possibility, restricted exhaust. This can be due to things like; kinked exhaust/tail pipe, loose muffler baffle, some foreign material in the system (like a nest), stuck heat riser.
      Gary L.
      Wappinger, NY

      SDC member since 1968
      Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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      • #33
        I'd be doing a fuel pressure and delivery test at the fuel line entering the carb. the results answer a lot of questions about condition of the pump, lines and filter.

        Troubleshooting charts for use with vacuum gages have some test results for constricted exhaust.
        http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...cumm-Gauge.jpg
        A pressure measurement directly to a bung welded to the exhaust pipe before the manifold would be even more meaningful.

        Taping the gage to the windshield when hooked to the manifold, then the fuel line, and later the exhaust system would answer a lot more questions about what is working right and what is working wrong. Kind of like an OBD II port does now.

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        • #34
          Everything is good here. I have a new heat riser valve and exhaust system.
          Originally posted by studegary View Post
          Gord mentions another good possibility, restricted exhaust. This can be due to things like; kinked exhaust/tail pipe, loose muffler baffle, some foreign material in the system (like a nest), stuck heat riser.
          1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45

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          • #35
            Thanks for the info on the vacuum. I'm saving that info for the other cars I have too.
            Originally posted by Dan Timberlake View Post
            I'd be doing a fuel pressure and delivery test at the fuel line entering the carb. the results answer a lot of questions about condition of the pump, lines and filter.

            Troubleshooting charts for use with vacuum gages have some test results for constricted exhaust.
            http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...cumm-Gauge.jpg
            A pressure measurement directly to a bung welded to the exhaust pipe before the manifold would be even more meaningful.

            Taping the gage to the windshield when hooked to the manifold, then the fuel line, and later the exhaust system would answer a lot more questions about what is working right and what is working wrong. Kind of like an OBD II port does now.
            1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45

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            • #36
              One thing you might try. Get a transistor radio (remember those), set it on the low end of the AM band, between stations, and carry it in the car, volume cranked up, while you go for a ride. You should hear a pop from the speaker every time a spark plug fires. At higher speeds, the pops will merge into a buzz. If the ignition is breaking down at higher RPM, causing your miss, you should hear an abrupt change in the nature of the buzz.
              Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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              • #37
                just one more... old cars and partially clogged fuel lines. disconnect at fuel pump input and apply high pressure air to blow back into tank. this should
                be in- expensive test. No parts to buy !

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by poweroptions View Post
                  I must have 6V present because the OD seems to work.
                  The question about the wire is... can you kick the car down out of overdrive once it is running at speed in overdrive. If the loose wire is the one I suspect it is, you won't be able to get the car OUT of overdrive by depressing the accelerator. It will come out of overdrive when the road speed reaches 22 MPH or so, but the missing wire will not allow a kick-down at speed.
                  RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                  17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                  10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                  10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                  4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                  5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                  56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                  60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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                  • #39
                    You guys are right on. Just reversed the wires on MY 6V coil and it runs so much better with the pertronics (even though the garage next door boosted my 6v car with a 12 V battery). After changing out the voltage regulator and getting it charging again, at least it'll drive OK until I get my new dizzy from Dave Thibeault. Thanks a bunch!
                    Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

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                    • #40
                      My Champion was still cutting out under load. I have been noticing it puff blue smoke on start up. It never did that before it's 1 1/2 years at the mechanics garage. I pulled the new NGK plugs tonight that the shop installed and they are fouled, black and sooty. My old Autolite plugs that were pulled 1 1/2yrs ago are in the parts box in the trunk. They are nice and light greyish. No sootiness. I don't know what the hell has taken place with my car but I don't think it's good. Every time I give it gas I get a noticeable puff of blue smoke. The oil pressure isn't what it use to be either. It still runs about 45-50lbs going down the roadit use to be 55-60lbs, but when hot at idle it now is dropping to 20lbs. It use to drop to 35-40 before the extended stay at the shop. What's do you all think. Is it valve guides our bad rings?? It still sounds good, nice and quiet when idling. Another thing when I drove it home the head bolts were not tight. The shop had taken off the spark plug wire bracket and then forgot to tighten the head bolts I guess. I got home and oil was leaking out of the head, I tightened those 2 bolts. Now I also notice quite a bit of oil leaking from all around the valve inspection covers that side of the motor is wet too. I'm wish like hell I knew of a Stude mechanic in the D/FW area or east Texas area. All and any ideas are greatly appreciated. My Champion is probably my favorite car of all of them.
                      1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45

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                      • #41
                        As a test - put the old Autolite plugs in and drive it. (I have more faith in old Autolite plugs than new NGK plugs.)

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                        • #42
                          If the smoke is really blue instead of black, the extra oil burning could be related to the oil leaking from the valve covers - the shop could have left out the oil baffles.

                          If the smoke is black, that would be related to the carb problems.

                          The oil pressure could be related to the type of oil installed, or the oil could be diluted with gasoline from the carburetor problems. Diluted oil would wear the bearings out very quickly. You might see if the oil level on the dipstick has actually gone up. There is an old mechanics trick to tell if there is oil in the gas. I cannot remember enough of it to explain it, but you might pull the dipstick, walk away from the car and sniff the dipstick for gas fumes.

                          The fouled plugs could cause the high speed problems, and are related to the carb. Putting the good looking ones in and test driving is a great idea.

                          It seems to me that a lot of different things are going on at the same time
                          -loose wire
                          -loose head bolts
                          -smoking
                          -bad brakes
                          -fuel dripping from carb
                          -lower oil pressure
                          -poor high speed performance

                          It's usually better to focus on one symptom, or one system at a time. The fuel system seems to have the most commonality here, but I would re-torque the head bolts with a torque wrench in the proper pattern first.

                          I feel your frustration and sincerely wish you had a good mechanic. From your posts, it seems like the mechanics you currently have are doing more disservice than good. They certainly seem to be a sloppy bunch. Even if one does not understand a certain car, leaving wires disconnected and head bolts loose is inexcusable.
                          Last edited by RadioRoy; 06-17-2013, 09:09 PM.
                          RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                          17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                          10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                          10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                          4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                          5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                          56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                          60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Smoke is blue. The Champion never smoked before. I tightened the 2 head bolts that held the spark plug wire bracket. I replaced the NGK plugs with my old Autolites. I've went to DELO 5w-30 oil with the oil change. Jumped in for a drive went a couple blocks running/missing so badly I turned around and came back home thru my blue fog. I'm just sick.
                            1942 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan * 1952 Studebaker Champion Regal * 1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight * 1967 Thunderbird Hdtp * 1969 Continental Mark III * 1969 Mercury Marquis convertible * 1972 Buick Riviera * 1973 Continental Mark IV * 1978 Glass Top Lincoln Town Car * 1983 Mercedes 300SD * 1986 Dodge RAM 4WD * 1999 Infiniti Q45

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Don't panic about the smoke and oil pressure. Cars don't like to be left sit. If you have a sticky ring or some oil was leaking past your head gasket it will probably be fine with a little use. Just drive it for a while and see what happens. You have plenty of oil pressure so don't let that worry you.

                              Are your valve covers leaking from the gasket or around the bolts? They may have left the copper sealing washers off the bolts. You can try tightening the valve covers but don't bend them. Mine always seemed to seep a little so I used some RTV on them and that worked. I need to clean it off when I adjust the valves but that is not a problem.

                              You don't need a stude mechanic as much as any competent mechanic. There has to be one around there. It sounds like you need someone to very carefully check your ignition and fuel systems. Go to some car shows and ask anyone with both clean fingernails and a smooth-running car where they go.
                              _______________
                              http://stude.vonadatech.com
                              https://jeepster.vonadatech.com

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                              • #45
                                The Low end of the Multi-weight Oil 5W, for cold Temps. is way too low for a 40's to '60's Tech. Engine, use 20W-50 or at least 10W-30, never LESS.
                                Certainly NOT in Texas Climates.

                                Not to mention that Delo Diesel no longer has sufficient ZDDP additive for Flat Tappet Engines to protect the Camshaft and Lifters.
                                Last edited by StudeRich; 06-18-2013, 12:56 PM.
                                StudeRich
                                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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