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  • Engine: Oil filter options on a 64 259

    The engine I am contemplating using in my 39 CE has a cannister type filter up next to the oil filler. I am concerned that it will interfere with the AC compressor i want to install. Can someone comment on that?

    In looking at the repair manuals it appears there are three options for oil filtering in this era:
    1. Like mine, cannister/
    2. A screw on filter in the same location, up top next to the oil filler.
    3. Down low on the side of the block, presumably next to the oil pump? I have not been able to find any pictures of this configuration anywhere.

    Is my list complete and accurate?

    Again, my intent is to have an AC system on the vehicle. I'd prefer the full flow filter but apparently if it clears the compressor the partial flow gives good service too.
    Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

  • #2
    Tom: Are you sure you have a 1964 259 engine?

    Read and record the stamped engine serial number off the pad on the very top left side of the engine block; the drivers side. If it really is a 1964 engine, it wouldn't have that type of "up-top" oil filter unless it was a special engine with a block-off plate on the lower right rear of the engine block, which is where a full-flow, spin-on oil filter would normally be on a 1964 V8. A few "full-flow" engines used that block-off plate for special applications, but not for passenger cars.

    Further, a 1964 engine would not have an oil filler pipe in the front center of the engine, as yours seems to have.

    So for the time being, we'll assume it is an earlier V8 engine.

    That said, your filter will be a partial-flow filter at the top of the engine, regardless of whether or not it is spin-on or cartridge type. You may mount the oil filter components on either side of the filler pipe, with the approporiate hose routing, to accommodate an air conditioning compressor on the opposite side of the pipe. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

    Comment


    • #3
      If the partial flow filter is changed to an aftermarket spin-on base, it can be located virtually anywhere convenient.

      Be aware most aftermarket filter bases won't have the necessary restrictor fitting and will have hoses too large for a partial flow application. The large hoses don't hurt anything, they aren't necessary and just get in the way.

      jack vines
      PackardV8

      Comment


      • #4
        Absolutly, -10 lines are required for proper volume to be filtered.
        KIDDING..........

        Actually, just the opposite, I've been driving my daily driver Lark, 2dr. wagon for over 10 years now with..."no"...filter.
        I just change the oil more often. Over 90,000 miles and the oil pressure is just fine.
        Some disagree, but from what I saw in my Larks case, with the OEM partial filtration system...the key word is "partial" filtration. And some say that it only takes a few minutes to fully filter 5 quarts....bunk..! With that little .060" restrictor hole, it would take hours, upon hours to "mostly" filter 5 quarts of oil.

        As Jack says.."if" you really want a filter, just buy a remote filter housing currently marketed (Summit, Jegs, Speedway) and put a .060" restrictor in the adapter. Then mount it anywhere easy/convienent.

        Mike

        P.s. - Just thought I'd better add...yes a "proper" full flow oil filtration should be part of any engine to keep things clean and properly lubed. But filtering thru a .060" orifice is a waste of a lot of space (in my opinion).

        Comment


        • #5
          Just a couple of thoughts on filtering through a .060 orifice. The Idea is that 5 quarts of oil will pass through a .060 orifice in a few minutes isn't so far out of line.
          1) how many passes would it take for all the oil to have gone through the filter? I don't know, but it should't take too long, some will get filtered over and over.
          2) what's the diameter of the inside of that tiny copper wire that goes to the oil pressure gauge and how long does it take to empty the engine if it ruptures? Seconds by all accounts. So, if seconds will pump out 5 quarts, ( or six) how many times 5 or 6 quarts will pass through that .060 orifice in minutes?

          Just speculating. I've no horse in this race.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well the car looks like a 64 but the engine might have been changed....or from what I hear here, would it be too surprising if it were built that way?

            I'll try to find the engine number....It'll be under the exhaust manifold?
            Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

            Comment


            • #7
              No, Tom; the number is not near the exhaust manifold. It is on TOP of the block,. to the right of that oil filler tube as you are looking at the engine.

              It is stamped like this:



              Post the numbers (and letters) stamped right there and we can identify the engine for you. (The above engine's serial number, for example, is VCK318. Those are the type numbers you are looking for.) BP
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              Ayn Rand:
              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #8
                OH, I see. This makes more sense!

                Thanks Bob!
                Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I like to point out that the engine number shown in the previous post is from a 1964 engine.
                  Up until 1964 the engine numbers on V8 engines were a series of numbers preceded by a "V" for 259 and "P" for 289 engines.
                  All engines produced for the 1964 cars on the same day received the same engine number.
                  It was like a day code,but different V8 series engines used either a "V" or "P" ahead of the day code and when it has a "C" it was canadian built.
                  See http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/V8EngineID.asp for deciphering the day codes.
                  It caused a lot of confusion in states where they used the engine number on the titles.
                  Robert Kapteyn

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten View Post
                    Absolutly, -10 lines are required for proper volume to be filtered.
                    KIDDING..........

                    Actually, just the opposite, I've been driving my daily driver Lark, 2dr. wagon for over 10 years now with..."no"...filter.
                    I just change the oil more often. Over 90,000 miles and the oil pressure is just fine.
                    Some disagree, but from what I saw in my Larks case, with the OEM partial filtration system...the key word is "partial" filtration. And some say that it only takes a few minutes to fully filter 5 quarts....bunk..! With that little .060" restrictor hole, it would take hours, upon hours to "mostly" filter 5 quarts of oil.

                    As Jack says.."if" you really want a filter, just buy a remote filter housing currently marketed (Summit, Jegs, Speedway) and put a .060" restrictor in the adapter. Then mount it anywhere easy/convienent.

                    Mike

                    P.s. - Just thought I'd better add...yes a "proper" full flow oil filtration should be part of any engine to keep things clean and properly lubed. But filtering thru a .060" orifice is a waste of a lot of space (in my opinion).
                    The biggest add on in the diesel world is to add a bypass oil filter......I guess they don't know beans either?
                    Last edited by bezhawk; 01-12-2013, 07:24 AM.
                    Bez Auto Alchemy
                    573-318-8948
                    http://bezautoalchemy.com


                    "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bezhawk View Post
                      The biggest add on in the diesel world is to add a bypass add a bypass oil filter......I guess they don't know beans either?
                      I may have missed something but I suspect all remote filter kits available today are full flow.
                      Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by t walgamuth View Post
                        I may have missed something but I suspect all remote filter kits available today are full flow.
                        That is not correct.
                        A 'full flow' filtering system takes the oil from the oil pump and pushes the oil through the filter 'before' the oil goes to the cam bearings, main bearings, and rod bearings.
                        The partial flow system taps a line off the oil gallery 'somewhere' and filters it, then dumps the oil back to the oil pan.

                        A partial flow does not filter the oil before the bearings.
                        It just filters whatever oil happens to get pushed into the filter inlet line.
                        Filtering is just happenstance, but through repeptetive circulation most of the oil does end up making a trip through the filter.

                        Now, in HD diesel truck engines today, the pressure relief bypass valve can be built into the block, separated from the oil pump.
                        There could be a port that is used that will take the oil 'before' the bearings and replace it 'before' the bearings.
                        You'd have to check the specific engine mfr. to be sure.
                        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                        Jeff


                        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't follow your last paragraph. It does not seem to mention the oil filter flow at all.

                          Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
                          That is not correct.
                          A 'full flow' filtering system takes the oil from the oil pump and pushes the oil through the filter 'before' the oil goes to the cam bearings, main bearings, and rod bearings.
                          The partial flow system taps a line off the oil gallery 'somewhere' and filters it, then dumps the oil back to the oil pan.

                          A partial flow does not filter the oil before the bearings.
                          It just filters whatever oil happens to get pushed into the filter inlet line.
                          Filtering is just happenstance, but through repeptetive circulation most of the oil does end up making a trip through the filter.

                          Now, in HD diesel truck engines today, the pressure relief bypass valve can be built into the block, separated from the oil pump.
                          There could be a port that is used that will take the oil 'before' the bearings and replace it 'before' the bearings.
                          You'd have to check the specific engine mfr. to be sure.
                          Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OK, I just came back from spending a few hours trying to fire up the studey engine. It seems to have a serial number of V440474. If the first three are supposed to all be letters then it must be VAA0474. Next I pulled all the plugs. They are Champion J12-y. They all looked clean and tan. By the plugs I would conclude it was a good running engine when parked. No deposits and no oil on them. Next I squirted some oil into the cylinders. Then I installed a spare battery I had around and tried to crank it over with the starter. The key would make a clicking noise which did not sound robust enough to be the soliniod. I decided the starter was duff and began cleaning up to go home. Then I noticed a remote solinoid. I ran a jumper from the battery to the starter side of the soliniod and it cranked. So I cranked it over for a few minutes non stop. It was a little reluctant at first but as the oil disspated around the cylinders the cranking smoothed out to a constant whirrr.

                            So I tried some ether and got nothing. I decided it must not be getting spark and broke for lunch.'

                            So I went back and pulled the dist cap and filed the points. All looked very good inside that so I clipped it back down and tried again. No spark. So I decided to run a jump wire to the plus side of the coil. When doing that I found one of the coil wires lying down on the intake manifold. As I was puzzling about this a fellow walked up who lives next door to my indies garage (where I was working in the parking lot). I mentioned that I had found the little nut missing on the coil and had been looking around for one he said "OH, I swiped that a couple of years ago".

                            Heh heh! (You cannot make this stuff up!)

                            So he went over to his garage and found me a nut and washer. I installed it and had spark.

                            But the motor would not fire. I by that time had locked my ether into my other vehicle which I had left there for them to work on so had to give up for the time being. I'll go back with ether and try again.

                            So does any body have the answer as to what engine it is from the number above?
                            Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, Tom; it is a 1959 model year 259 engine. As such, it may or may not have been equipped with a partial-flow oil filter when it left South Bend. BP
                              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                              Ayn Rand:
                              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                              Comment

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