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  • hawk backspacing

    I have seen folks here talk about backspacing for larks and such, I have never seen folks talk about backspacing for 58-61 hawks. On a wheel that is 16x7 for example what would the backspacing be for a hawk? That is with drum brakes all around?

    Studebakers forever!
    Studebakers forever!

  • #2
    I believe clearances on all C/K's ('53-'64) should be similar if not identical.

    It's going to depend to a big extent on how low the car is and what size tires you run on the 16 x 7 wheels. Too many variables to pin down a number. Trial and error is the best way to tell.

    There is not much room between the face of the rear drum and the fender. To get a 7" wide wheel back there, you will probably need one with 4" (or more) backspacing.

    I don't think there is any way you can get a 7" wide wheel in the front if you want to turn lock to lock AND go over bumps. They will either hit the fender or the tie rod.


    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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    • #3
      From what I have seen and read the Larks & Hawks used the same rims
      which were 15 x 4.5. They also all used the same front suspension and
      the same rear ends. So backspacing and limitations are the same for
      all the model cars including Avanti. What is different is the room in
      between the tire and the fender. This is model dependent. I had some
      14 x 7 rims on my Hawk for years, a buddy has 15 x 7. I run 17 x 8 on
      my Avanti. What will get you is the aspect ratio of the tire, width,
      and overall height. There are some nice tools, some you can borrow,
      that bolt to the hub and allow you to mimic different size tires and rims.

      Tom

      http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/wheelbackspace.txt

      Sep 2004
      -------
      It turns out there is a wheel wholesaler warehouse here in fargo that
      has some of the ford rims in stock.

      I went over there friday with a tape measure and got some dimensions.
      I also remeasured my stock '53 rims this weekend and also a '63 lark
      stock rim I have around. So here for future reference is what I
      found....

      Stock '53 rim:

      Tire bead inside Width: 5"
      Overall outside width: 6-1/8"
      Backspacing: 4-3/8"
      Offset (tire centerline to inside edge): 1-5/16"
      Center hole ID: 2-3/4"

      Stock '63 lark rim:

      Tire bead inside width: 4-1/2"
      Overall outside width: 5-5/8"
      Backspacing: 3-5/8"
      Offset (tire centerline to inside edge): 1-1/16"
      Center hole ID: forgot to measure

      6" Ford rim, NWRA X-40273:

      Tire bead inside width: 6"
      Overall outside width: 7-1/8"
      Backspacing: 4-1/8"
      Offset (tire centerline to inside edge): 9/16"
      Center hole ID: 2-3/4"

      Currently, my '53 has a stock mid 70's Maverick 8" rear end in it.
      With the stock '53 rims, my track width from center to center of the
      rear tires is about 54-1/2" to 54-3/4". I have 205/75R15 tires on it
      and there is about 3" to 3-1/2" clearance from the tire sidewall to
      the fender lip on each side.

      While at the zone meet in WI last month, I took the opportunity to
      check out some other cars. There was a '54 Champion hardtop there
      with stock sized bias tires (6.70-15). I'll assume it had the stock
      wheels since everything else about it was stock.... Track width was
      56-1/4" center to center and about 2 to 2-1/2" clearance from the
      sidewalls to the fender lips. I also checked the rear track on a '58
      packard hawk and it was also 56-1/4".

      Soooo. It would appear that the Maverick rear end is about 1-1/2" to
      1-3/4" inches narrower than the original rear was in my car. Taking
      into account the rim width increase and change in offset, if I put
      these wider rims on the back, I should increase my track width about
      1-1/2" and get back what was lost. The outside of the wheel should
      push out 1-1/4" over what I have now and will make my fender clearance
      essentially the same as the stock setup was like I measured on that
      '54.

      Jeff Hopman
      '53 Starliner


      '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

      Comment


      • #4
        The info. Tom stated and linked to is correct, but with a deleation. The ford wheel, X-40273, is no longer available from Hayes/Lemmerez(sp). It and the mopar wheels, 15X6, 15X6&1/2, 15X7, and 15X8 have also been discontinued. Many of these wheels are in junk yards, it just takes time and patience to find a matching set that is not bent and/or rusty. Try to find a car with a free spinning front wheel, so you can check each wheel for trueness BEFORE you leave the yard. It's a pain in the ... to find the bent wheel after you've cleaned and painted all, and are at the tire store to get new tires mounted and balanced.[xx(] Hope this helps.

        Dan Miller
        Atlanta, GA



        [img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
        Road Racers turn left AND right.

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        • #5
          I am running MoPar 15x7 cop car wheels front and rear on my '55 coupe (same body as a Hawk) and they work fine. the offset on those is about 3/4" as best as I can tell. Front tires are currently 215/60s although they look a little "rubber bandy" (they're what I had laying around - old tires from Porsche) and rears are 245/60s. I can actually fit the 245s on the front and they don't rub although steering is a little stiff There's a LOT more room under there than with a Lark body! This is with stock ride height and HD springs F&R. I was running 1/4" spacers on the front for tie rod clearance but when I swapped to finned drums the lug studs on the finned drums were shorter so I have not been using the spacers. It is close but appears not to rub.

          If you wanted to fit wider tires in the back than 245s you would need to go to wheels with different offsets front and rear, as I certainly don't think you could fit anything significantly different than what I have in the front as it is tight both inside and outside. Maybe a 17" wheel would allow for tie rod clearance for more offset, maybe Tom (sbca96) could comment?

          nate

          --
          55 Commander Starlight
          http://members.cox.net/njnagel
          --
          55 Commander Starlight
          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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          • #6
            Nate,

            In the picture above, those are 15X8" with 225/70HR15 Eagle GTs front and rear. I used a piece of pipe and "rolled" the lips of both front and rear fenders. I've had no contact, front or rear. I haven't measured the offset on these wheels, but I'd guess they're 0. A few weeks back, I had the opportunity to mount an '06 Ford Explorer wheel and tire on an Avanti, front and rear. Even with the large offset AND 17" dia., the wheel still rubbed the tie rod end! The rear cleared with 2-3" clearance to the leaf spring, and from the rear of the car, appeared to be almost stock appearing on the outside. I guess all of this is trial and error....make it up as you go.

            Dan Miller
            Atlanta, GA

            [img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
            Road Racers turn left AND right.

            Comment


            • #7
              I was going to use a 16x7 with p245 16 tires all the way around. With a backspace of 4 inches in-3 out. I see that the error method might work however I don't have any wheels like that to test it with, I was hoping someone had already done it. I want to use the Boyd coddington smoothe. I think that is a very attractive wheel they said they could make any offset I wanted however once it is made it's mine. I must be right the first time.

              Studebakers forever!
              Studebakers forever!

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              • #8
                No dice, the edge of the rim ends up inline with the tie rod pretty
                much. It also will contact the upper front steel bushing zerk on a
                full lock turn with the rim I chose. I dont have the backspacing on
                me at the moment but I posted it before. I'm having .100 spacers made
                right now to move the wheel out just a hair to clear. When I did the
                brake upgrade and the hub modification, I purposely used studs long
                enough for a .125 spacer. I think I can get away with .100, which is
                going to give me 8 full threads of contact. When buying rims it is
                CRITICAL to have enough stud length to hold the wheel. Safety first!

                Tom

                PS : 18 inch rims look as though they will clear the front zerk. This
                is why Karl went with 20s.

                quote:Originally posted by N8N
                Maybe a 17" wheel would allow for tie rod clearance for more offset, maybe Tom (sbca96) could comment?
                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                Comment


                • #9
                  thanks for that info.

                  Studebakers forever!
                  Studebakers forever!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    4 3/4" backspace, less and you will rub the inner fender. When you put that tire on you will have to raise the body. Putting the jack under the axle it won't go. If you go to 5"- 5 1/2" there will be more fender clearance but they will not fit on the front. At 4 3/4" there is only about 1/2" or less to the tie rod end.

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