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Torqueing a wobble extension

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  • Lark Parker
    replied
    Yes I have brass nuts and they are colder in the winter time.
    The figure (in this case 25 to 30ft lbs) is in the torque chart in the back of the manual and also in the text regarding reassembling the motor.
    No distinction is made between brass and steel. The coefficient of friction (inversely proportional to speed) is NOT a factor to be considered in determining the desired torque. Nor is the humidity or lunar cycle.
    Using brass nuts should not change the required torque figure as that figure is based on the "stretching" or elasticity of the steel stud and not on the turning friction. Torque is sometimes explained as a "clamping factor" resulting from the elasticity of the bolt..
    If the turning friction was the determining factor then it would be a lot easier to torque down a head as there would be no need to chase the block threads or lube the bolt. The figure would be a lot easier to reach with the torque wrench. And use rusty bolts.

    The air speed of a swallow becomes important if you are shooting them in the dark.
    And I was shooting in the dark regarding the possible effect of using the wobble extension.

    For Milaca: I agree and would not use anything less than a !/2" extension when torqueing head bolts at 90. (Better look that number up as it came from my decreasing memory bank.)
    For Scarecrowtim: I agree.
    For Walgamuth: I never realized you lived so close to me.
    Last edited by Lark Parker; 12-04-2012, 06:56 AM. Reason: I like editing.

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  • t walgamuth
    replied
    I giggled quietly too.

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  • nvonada
    replied
    What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?

    Not to ask the obvious question but where did you get a torque value for these nuts at all? There is none in my manuals. Do you have brass nuts?

    Did anyone else giggle at the brass nuts thing? Or am I the only emotional 14-year-old here?

    Nathan

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  • scarecrowtim
    replied
    Torque is the actual force times the moment arm so depending on whether the moment arm length decreased or increased (the 10 degree play could add or reduce this moment arm depending on where it was in relation to the socket and torque wrench and as mentioned previously the length of the extension) it could either increase the torque or decrease the torque but probably not enough to worry about.

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  • Milaca
    replied
    Interesting question Mr. Parker. I suppose there would also be a loss of torque dependant on the length of the extension as well. An extremely small loss I suppose, but a loss none the less.

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  • Lark Parker
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom B View Post
    If your eyeball 10 deg is accurate, then your math is OK. For what it's worth, that's only enough to compress the gaskets, anyway.
    I think I read somewhere that the wobble socket or extension is built to 15 degrees.
    So a ten estimate shouldn't be far off.
    I really was more interested in whether there was a loss of force and about how much.
    In hindsight, 1 1/2% isn't worth worrying about but I didn't know that for sure without giving it at least a passing thought.

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  • 63 R2 Hawk
    replied
    You did not account for the coefficient of friction as a function of the RMS finish on the fastener, nor did you account for possible affects of humidity, barometric pressure and the gravitational forces exerted by the moon at the time the wrench handle is being turned. I don't know if I would risk it......

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  • tbredehoft
    replied
    If your eyeball 10 deg is accurate, then your math is OK. For what it's worth, that's only enough to compress the gaskets, anyway.

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  • Lark Parker
    started a topic Exhaust: Torqueing a wobble extension

    Torqueing a wobble extension

    I had to use a wobble socket extemsion to reach the Champion engine manifold studs.
    I'm thinking that an angle of ten degrees on the wobble would reduce the torque applied to .985 (Sin 80 degrees) of the desired torque setting.
    This isn't enough to really worry about but ..... I started wondering if my thought process is correct.

    (This is a serious question and not down to my expected level.)
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