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Disassembling A 'No-Rol' Hill Holder

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  • Brakes: Disassembling A 'No-Rol' Hill Holder

    So, have been trying to finish a brake job on a '52 Land Cruiser with Hill Holder and cannot get the No-Rol unit apart!
    Any hints, clues or suggestions??
    I've soaked it for a lengthy period of time in penetrating fluid, attempted to unscrew the caps with a pipe wrench, etc., all to no avail.
    I would prefer not to use heat in order to not destroy the rubber components inside.
    Has anyone out there in Stude Land come up with a technique or tool which will effectively open these Hill Holder units?
    I have several others on the shelf and I haven't bee able to get any apart.
    Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
    Christof Kheim
    ---studesnbldr
    ckheim@yahoo.com

  • #2
    First, the question must be asked, has the hill holder shown itself to be defective? If not, DO NOT DISASSEMBLE IT! Clean it with alcohol or brake cleaner and re-install. If you can get it apart, you may never get it to not leak.
    "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

    Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
    Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
    sigpic'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée"

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    • #3
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      11-05-2010, 06:23 PM #30
      ivorydan
      Speedster Member

      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      Location
      Carmel, In, USA.
      Posts
      270

      Has to be removed from the car-no other way to get enough leverage on the big end plug. Clamp it securely into a vice, by the body, not the mounting flange which will break off when you apply pressure. Put a 14" pipe wrench on the big round end plug, put an 18'" section of something like chain link fence top rail over the end of the pipe wrench. You can then slip a breaker bar into the other end of the top rail if you need it. This will give you app 28 to 38 inches, the leverage needed to unloosen it . You really need to take the end plug off, check the ball cage, clean it all up (its been getting gummed up for 50-60 years!), put on the new gaskets, and tighten it back up the same way so it won't leak. Follow the shop manual so it just lets go when you release the clutch-you need a hill to test it on-it only works for the car backing down a hill-not going forward. It'll take a couple of times adjusting to get it just right. Dan

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      • #4
        I'm with Rockne10. Just leave it alone unless you want to open Pandora's box.
        RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

        17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
        10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
        10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
        4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
        5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
        56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
        60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rockne10 View Post
          First, the question must be asked, has the hill holder shown itself to be defective? If not, DO NOT DISASSEMBLE IT! Clean it with alcohol or brake cleaner and re-install. If you can get it apart, you may never get it to not leak.
          The reason I would like to disassemble the unit(s) is to properly clean it/them out and check the condition of the rubber on which the ball rests and sets the hill holder. After some 50 to 70 years with DOT3 brake fluid usage there is a likely chance of rust build-up, particularly for those used units which have been sitting on the shelf for years. I am also converting the brake system to DOT5 so I no longer have to worry about moisture build-up, leakage and brake component failure. Any gunk which might not flush out as you suggest could potentially come loose later and contaminate the freshly rebuilt system; not a good thing.

          Thanks "ivorydan" for your suggestion. Have you had any leakage problems upon reassembly? I would think that with new gaskets and proper reassembly they should not leak.
          Christof Kheim
          ---studesnbldr
          ckheim@yahoo.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by studesnbldr View Post
            >>>I would think that with new gaskets and proper reassembly they should not leak.
            Not necessarily!!!

            Wagner Electric used at least 2 different design end caps and the commonly available "Hill-Holder" (NO-ROL) re-build kits will only seal correctly on those which ORIGINALLY designed to use the "Copper" seal ...not the type that used the "Composite material" seal.

            IF ...you decide to go the "disassembly route;" first look very closely to see whether yours has the "Copper" or the "Composite material" seal between the end cap & valve housing. IFComposite

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            • #7
              check the condition of the rubber on which the ball rests and sets the hill holder.
              And if the rubber is bad? Seems as if I checked once a long time ago and was told the rubber is NLA.

              jack vines
              PackardV8

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              • #8
                Several years back I had the challenge to myself to get one opened as I needed parts for one. I found the best way was to try and actually tighten them first and then to then to remove them. The threads are right hand threads. I used a two foot pipe wrench and my largest vise to hold it while opening. I also carefully tapped on them around the fittings first to attempt to jar rust loose. At least some are cast so you cannot bang too hard. I used this process to open 5 of the 6 I had. I had also soaked them for months in kroil to help break the rust loose.
                Milt

                1947 Champion (owned since 1967)
                1961 Hawk 4-speed
                1967 Avanti
                1961 Lark 2 door
                1988 Avanti Convertible

                Member of SDC since 1973

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                • #9
                  Christof: no leak. Dan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ivorydan View Post
                    Quick reply to this message Reply Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message
                    11-05-2010, 06:23 PM #30
                    ivorydan
                    Speedster Member

                    Join Date
                    Jun 2006
                    Location
                    Carmel, In, USA.
                    Posts
                    270

                    Has to be removed from the car-no other way to get enough leverage on the big end plug. Clamp it securely into a vice, by the body, not the mounting flange which will break off when you apply pressure. Put a 14" pipe wrench on the big round end plug, put an 18'" section of something like chain link fence top rail over the end of the pipe wrench. You can then slip a breaker bar into the other end of the top rail if you need it. This will give you app 28 to 38 inches, the leverage needed to unloosen it . You really need to take the end plug off, check the ball cage, clean it all up (its been getting gummed up for 50-60 years!), put on the new gaskets, and tighten it back up the same way so it won't leak. Follow the shop manual so it just lets go when you release the clutch-you need a hill to test it on-it only works for the car backing down a hill-not going forward. It'll take a couple of times adjusting to get it just right. Dan
                    Dan-
                    Although not easy, your technique for getting the Hill Holder apart worked!
                    The only suggestion I'd add is using plumbing pipe jaws in the vice; helps hold the round body in place while wrenching on it.
                    To those naysayers who said to leave well enough alone, the unit was full of black gunk and needed a good thorough and proper cleaning. Upon careful reassembly and installation, it does not leak, unlike what was predicted.
                    Thanks again Dan.
                    Christof Kheim
                    ---studesnbldr
                    ckheim@yahoo.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by studesnbldr View Post
                      >>>To those naysayers who said to leave well enough alone, the unit was full of black gunk and needed a good thorough and proper cleaning. Upon careful reassembly and installation, it does not leak, unlike what was predicted. Thanks again Dan.
                      That's great news!!!

                      Did it originally have the "Copper" or the "Composite material" type end cap seal??? TIA

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