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Need 62 Lark Fan Blower Motor That Turns Other Way

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  • Robert Crandall
    replied
    Here is the update to the heater repair I started this topic with. I received the heater motor from Rusty65 two days after I asked for it, and it was exactly as he described it. For some reason it takes me a long time to get anything done, but the heater is now reassembled and bench tested. It works well, and a squirrel cage throws a lot of air when it is turning the right way. The motor turned out to be 1/2 inch longer than the one I had been using. I was able to get it in, but the squirrel cage is not completely in its housing. No matter - it throws a lot of air out the defroster vents. The two speeds work, but I do not anticipate using the high speed. Because I only drive it on sunny, dry days now I was fine for the last two winters with no fan at all here in southeast Virginia. I wanted to find a two speed motor, so I could be assured of having a slow speed. I hesitated to buy a single speed motor because I did not want that single speed to be so loud that I would not want to use it at all. I reinstalled it in the truck today. My existing duct lines were dry and broken. I found that I had enough left over from the 1977 restoration to replace them. They are as old as the ones I was using, so I do not expect them to last long, but I would rather them go bad in service than continue to take up room in my shed. I have a front seal issue that I will deal with after Christmas. That repair will require me to take the radiator out, so I will wait until then to hook the water to the heater and find out what it is like to have a working fan turning the right way.

    Thanks to all who offered advice on this topic, especially Rusty65 for offering a motor that I was able to use. Thanks also to Skip Lackie for telling me how to find my posts. Click image for larger version

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  • wittsend
    replied
    I have been in a similar situation as yours. I have a 1973 Pinto with the 2.3 Turbo Coupe (T-Bird) engine conversion. The heater fan motor passes through the firewall and interfered with the turbo exhaust outlet. A shorter fan was needed. I also have a 1965 Sunbeam Tiger. A common replacement fan motor is a shorter version from an MG Midget. Knowing about this stubby motor was an asset.

    All it took was slotting two mounting holes and installing the MG fan. The fan had a smaller cage fan and needed to run in reverse rotation (reversing the wire polarity). Much to my surprise the reversed rotation direction and the smaller cage did nothing to diminish the amount of airflow. The reverse operating cage fan still grabbed the air and effectively moved it equal to - and I think slightly greater than the original Pinto fan/motor.

    While not your application I posted to encourage you that just about anything seemingly will work. And with heater fan/motors the adaptability is rather straight forward thus allowing many fan/motor options.
    Tom

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  • jclary
    replied
    Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post
    No it is not. That works with a DC motor that has a permanent magnet field. The blower motors in our cars have a field coil and the motors are series wound, meaning the current goes through the field and then through the armature.

    To reverse an electric motor, you must reverse the RELATIONSHIP between thefield and the armature. A motor with a permanent magnet field will always have the field with the same magnetic polarity. Reversing it is simple - just reverse the polarity of the armature.

    Since our motors are series wound, reversing polarity on the motor leads still makes the motor rotate in the same direction because the REALTIONSHIP of the field coil's magnetic field and the armature's magnetic field are still the same.

    To reverse a series wound motor, you have to go inside and either swap the field connections or swap the armature connections, but not swap both. If you swap both, the armature and the filed will still have the same relationship and the motor will still turn the same way.

    Does this make sense?

    Hey! How do I turn on spell check? My new computer has it turned off somehow.
    Good Roy! That is what I was getting at in post #6. I knew someone would have the knowledge I was lacking. Good explanation.

    Now 'bout that spell checker...try reversing the plug in the wall socket.

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  • studebakerkid
    replied
    Have you thought about using muffin fans.....the kind used in computers. I Converted Pinkie to a single muffin fan and the defroster works great so great that I did the same in the 54 for the floor heater so when I flip the switch in the 54 the stock fender fan starts moving the air and the muffin fan I installed inside the heater core housing really moves the heated air out from under the seat.

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  • rusty65
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Crandall View Post
    I took the motor I was using from a 1962 Daytona, and it fit the Packard heater I am using perfectly. If your motor fits a Daytona heater and turns counter clockwise while looking at the shaft end, then it seems it is just what I am looking for. Thank you for the offer. What are your terms? e-mail: krcrandall@verizon.net
    E-mail sent.

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  • RadioRoy
    replied
    Originally posted by K-Hawk View Post
    it be as simple as reversing the ground and the positive to change the polarity of the motor.
    No it is not. That works with a DC motor that has a permanent magnet field. The blower motors in our cars have a field coil and the motors are series wound, meaning the current goes through the field and then through the armature.

    To reverse an electric motor, you must reverse the RELATIONSHIP between thefield and the armature. A motor with a permanent magnet field will always have the field with the same magnetic polarity. Reversing it is simple - just reverse the polarity of the armature.

    Since our motors are series wound, reversing polarity on the motor leads still makes the motor rotate in the same direction because the REALTIONSHIP of the field coil's magnetic field and the armature's magnetic field are still the same.

    To reverse a series wound motor, you have to go inside and either swap the field connections or swap the armature connections, but not swap both. If you swap both, the armature and the filed will still have the same relationship and the motor will still turn the same way.

    Does this make sense?

    Hey! How do I turn on spell check? My new computer has it turned off somehow.
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 11-17-2012, 06:19 PM.

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  • Robert Crandall
    replied
    I took the motor I was using from a 1962 Daytona, and it fit the Packard heater I am using perfectly. If your motor fits a Daytona heater and turns counter clockwise while looking at the shaft end, then it seems it is just what I am looking for. Thank you for the offer. What are your terms? e-mail: krcrandall@verizon.net

    Leave a comment:


  • rusty65
    replied
    From the "FWIW" department---I bought what I thought was a correct blower motor for the Daytona last year.It fit into the housing perfectly.The hamster wheel even fit with a little persuasion.Everything fit great and looked good.Went to bench test it with a battery.It was quiet, no squeals and I had both speeds! But yes, you guessed it----the motor runs bass ackwards.It is still in my basement, very securely attached to the (half of) the housing.The Studebaker gods must have shown pity on me because I managed to get my original motor to work, and I had a extra housing from my '66 Commander to hook it up to. @Robert Crandall if you think this will work for you, let me know......

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  • jclary
    replied
    Originally posted by K-Hawk View Post
    it be as simple as reversing the ground and the positive to change the polarity of the motor.
    That is something that I wondered about...however, it is not always that simple.

    I have enough electrical training and experience that gives me confidence to tackle repair jobs with enthusiasm and confidence. Problem is...it is often what gets me in trouble, and I realize that I lack the knowledge to get out of trouble. There are different methods of constructing electric motors, even in D. C. motors. I have encountered some D C motors that will rotate in the same direction regardless of polarity. I don't understand it...but some of you may have the expertise to explain it.

    Often, motor failure is simply a matter of worn out brushes. Sometimes, even if you can get new brushes, replacing them is very difficult because the brush springs make it hard to keep the brushes out of the way while you are attempting to slide the armature into the bearing of the end cap. I'm sure the manufacturers have some type of jig to accomplish this on a production line. For us "back yard" engineers...it is quite a challenge.

    When the problem is shorted windings, the economics of repair VS replacement most often makes replacement the most viable solution.

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  • Skip Lackie
    replied
    Click on your own name and then on "view forum posts".

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  • Robert Crandall
    replied
    Thanks for the answers. I took the motor to an automotive electric shop where the answer was that the motor cannot be fixed and cannot be reversed, so I did not do anything more with it. I had not yet considered taking it apart myself to see what I find. It may take me a while, but I will post what I do. There may be a simple reason it stopped working, and being able to reverse it would be a nice bonus. It immediately pops the fuse in the switch when I turn it on.

    A side note - I asked a question about a 2R5 that is my current project a few weeks ago. Now that post is buried some pages back. I have not yet figured out how to check on what I have posted. Is there a way to do that? I have been finding it by searching for that topic, but it is getting harder to find as it gets farther back on the list.

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  • K-Hawk
    replied
    it be as simple as reversing the ground and the positive to change the polarity of the motor.

    Leave a comment:


  • RadioRoy
    replied
    How about taking it apart and re-wiring it? If you reverse the relationship between the armature and the field, it will turn the other way.

    Or... how about finding a different fan blade/cage that is finned in the proper direction?

    Leave a comment:


  • Need 62 Lark Fan Blower Motor That Turns Other Way

    Between 1976 and 1978 I restored a 1950 GMC that had a 'Packard Deluxe' heater and defroster unit mounted in the cab on the firewall. I did a 12V, negative ground conversion as part of that project. A neighbor let me take a fan motor out of a wrecked 1962 Lark. It is a two speed motor, and I use the Studebaker switch to operate it. It fits the Packard heater perfectly, but it turns the wrong way. In 1977, when I was 21, I was happy that it made noise when I pulled the switch and ignored that it did not move very much air. After 48 years of use it quit in 2010. I drained the antifreeze to accommodate my winter project of 2011, so I took the heater out. It has been on my bench since then, but as part of my winter project of 2012 I hope to find a working motor and put it back in use. Looking at the shaft of the Lark fan motor, it turns CW. Is there a fan motor of the same size and shape as one for a 1962 Lark (5/16 inch diameter shaft) that turns CCW while looking at the shaft end?
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