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Dual carbs/superchargers

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  • Dual carbs/superchargers

    My son aquired a really nice old Edmunds dual carb intake a few years ago. His plan was (is?) to put two Stromberg WW's on it and hook these to two Superchargers. His question is will those carbs work with a Studebaker type supercharger (He has been designing a belt driven set up as per Mustangs etc, but for dual superchargers). I think his big question is will they be able to handle the fuel needed for the set up?

    This whole set up is for his '58 Silver Hawk that is sitting patiently at my house.

    Note that I am not the mechanic here so I may not have worded things just right but he asked me to put this question on the forum and I think I have put the jist of what he wants to know down here.
    Thanks for the help,
    Joe Roberts
    Joe Roberts
    '61 R1 Champ
    '65 Cruiser
    Eastern North Carolina Chapter

  • #2
    I happen to have a a vintage aluminum tee to split the hose from the blower. You'll have to seal the carbs or use two pressure boxes though.

    JDP/Maryland
    64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
    64 GT R2
    63 GT R2
    63 Lark 2 door
    59 3E truck
    58 Starlight
    52 & 53 Starliner
    51 Commander

    JDP Maryland

    Comment


    • #3
      I am the son and I figured I should go ahead and register to answer any questions anyone has about the setup. I have a 289 full flow block with R crank Dished pistons etc. I was going to use the dual 2bbl intake with two stromberg WW carbs. I have a collection of jets for these but I am worried that they will not flow enough to be able to handle the dual superchargers. I hope to run dual paxton sn93s with upwards of 15 pounds of boost.

      I have the pressure boxes for the carbs but I am wondering if it would be easier (safer) to run one really large 4bbl or two smaller 4 bbl to make sure I don't go lean with that kind of boost.

      Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

      Matt R.

      Comment


      • #4
        You need to talk to Karl Sparks. He's been running dual Paxtons into dual 4's for a couple decades now. Ron Hall's record setting Bonneville Avanti of a few years ago ran 2 Paxtons into a pressure box. Check the "monster engine" thread for a current "over the top" version. An appropriate size 4bbl in a pressure box is probably the most practical/efficient way to go. Otherwise you'll need to use the special/rare/expensive sealed carbs, or figure out how to get 2 carbs inside a box. Good luck with your project and keep us updated.


        Steve Hudson
        The Dalles, Oregon
        1949 "GMOBaker" 1-T Dually
        1953 Commander Convertible
        1954 Champion Coupe
        1960 Hawk

        Steve Hudson
        The Dalles, Oregon
        1949 \"GMOBaker\" 1-T Dually (workhorse)
        1953 Commander Convertible (show & go)
        1953 "Studacudallac" (project)

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah, I'm thinking that a single large 4bbl in a box will be much easier to tune than dual anythings.

          As far as the twin 2bbls they actually fit inside the original Studebaker pressure boxes and sit on the manifold without too much of a problem. I would have to cut and re-weld the intake tube for the rear box to get it at enough of an angle so that a charge pipe would fit around it.

          anybody else have an idea if the twin 2 barrels could keep up?

          Matt

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm no supercharger expert, but I'd say 15 pounds of boost would be deadly to that motor...unless you are cross bolting mains adding head bolts and doing a bunch of other fancy and expensive things to make it strong enough to handle that sort of boost. Stude motors are tough, but 15 pounds is into the compression engine category. [:0] Fuel would be over $5/gallon to run something like that and available only at major race tracks.

            Also, if you truly are building a full on race motor, you will need a lot more carburetor than 2 WW's. Karl is running about three times the carb flow as what you are considering and is probably no where near 15 pounds of boost.

            There is "the cool factor", however [8D]. Having a blower feeding two WW's would look darn right cool for sure! (you can't hide them in a pressure box, however, or the "cool factor" is substantially reduced)

            If you want to build a super high horsepower Stude motor, it can be done...probably something north of $25,000. If you want it to just look super cool, you could even consider your 2 WW set up and a "dummy" SC.




            Dick Steinkamp
            Bellingham, WA

            Comment


            • #7
              Matt, two Stromburg carbs are going to give you less CFM than a Carter or Edelbrock carb. On my Hawk I originally had a 57 Golden Hawk setup. I switched to a 600 CFM Edelbrock and cut over two seconds off my 0-60 time. I then tried a 800 CFM Edelbrock, but found no measurable difference in power. This is with 5-7lbs of boost.
              What are your plans for your Hawk? Except for looks, I think you will be better off with a single carb in the 600-800 CFM range.
              David

              Comment


              • #8
                Greetings, Joe,

                Decide on your goal. If it is maximum racetrack horsepower, spend the money on porting the heads, then on a more modern supercharger, such as a Vortec or Procharger blowing through a single 4-bbl on an R3-type intake.

                That old Edmunds intake and two Stromberg WWs may look tempting, but it will never make real horsepower. The ports on that intake were designed for the 232" small valve heads and won't flow sufficient air.

                One thing which needs mentioning; the two WWs will flow enough air for fast street use when supercharged. Remember, Stude claimed 275hp with a single WW on 5-7 psi boost. Two of them at 15 psi would easily get you to 600 hp if the intake restriction were out of the way.

                If you just want a trick look when you pop the hood at a Stude meet or a cruise night, by all means, go ahead. The twin Paxton, twin WW, twin polished GH airboxes, polished intake setup you describe will be off the top end of the bling chart. That it will also have more Stude DNA than an all-new setup is a positive for most of us.

                thnx, jv.


                PackardV8
                PackardV8

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you PackardV8, I will double check tonight after I get home but now that you mention that it makes since. I don't want to do all of the grinding to open up that intake and run into a chance of upsetting the strength of the casting. I think that I may go towards a single large 4bbl and pressure box, that will keep the stude parts but keep the tunning a lot easier.

                  As far as "looking cool" or a "bling factor" that is not what I am after although it doesn't hurt. 15psi on a 8.5:1 compression ratio with a centrifuge type supercharger should not destroy the motor. Those supercharges only see peak boost numbers at peak RPM although with the paxton ball design you can over spin them and hit boost a little early. With shot peened forged internals and conservative timing I think that should be OK without anything too fancy.


                  Matt

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lionel Stone I believe has a 2X2 Al repro manifold he sells, not sure of the port size. See his ad in TW.

                    Dan White
                    64 R1 GT
                    64 R2 GT
                    Dan White
                    64 R1 GT
                    64 R2 GT
                    58 C Cab
                    57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by silverhawk1958
                      15psi on a 8.5:1 compression ratio with a centrifuge type supercharger should not destroy the motor.
                      ((boost psi / 14.7) + 1) x motor compression = effective compression

                      You motor would be running over 17/1 effective compression (under boost). I'm sure there is technology available today to retard the spark, etc. to deal with this, but it just seems awfully close to a diesel, which generally is a lot beefier than even a Studebaker.

                      Again, I'm sure not an expert and if it can be done, go for it! It would certainly be a powerful motor []


                      Dick Steinkamp
                      Bellingham, WA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
                        ((boost psi / 14.7) + 1) x motor compression = effective compression
                        Dick,

                        You are getting mighty close to invading my territory! [:0]

                        Gary (AKA Decimal Dude)


                        Join me in removing narcissists, trolls, self annoited "experts" and general idiots via the Ignore button.

                        The official SDC Forum heel nipper ���

                        �Middle age is when your broad mind and narrow waist begin to change places.� E. Joseph Cossman

                        For every mile of road, there are 2 miles of ditch. ���

                        "All lies matter - fight the kleptocracy"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:Originally posted by Guido

                          You are getting mighty close to invading my territory! [:0]

                          Gary (AKA Decimal Dude)
                          I purposely didn't say 17.17346939/1 in order to not step on your toes.

                          -Dick-
                          (former owner of the pistine Hawk)




                          Dick Steinkamp
                          Bellingham, WA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Anything is possible if you set your mind to it...
                            You'll need to either make a wacky adapter to get the air into the rear carb, or you'll need to make some offset carb mount plates to move each carb a bit to one side (right for the front and left for the rear). I tried to talk Sonny Josker into this, but he had other ideas[}]
                            Some idea pic's are at:
                            http://rides.webshots.com/album/263293310NXufNX
                            Jeff[8D]








                            quote:Originally posted by JRoberts

                            My son aquired a really nice old Edmunds dual carb intake a few years ago. His plan was (is?) to put two Stromberg WW's on it and hook these to two Superchargers. His question is will those carbs work with a Studebaker type supercharger (He has been designing a belt driven set up as per Mustangs etc, but for dual superchargers). I think his big question is will they be able to handle the fuel needed for the set up?

                            This whole set up is for his '58 Silver Hawk that is sitting patiently at my house.

                            Note that I am not the mechanic here so I may not have worded things just right but he asked me to put this question on the forum and I think I have put the jist of what he wants to know down here.
                            Thanks for the help,
                            Joe Roberts
                            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                            Jeff


                            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As to effective compression, Ted Harbit is running boosts in the plus 20 pound range and has not hurt his engine.

                              JDP/Maryland
                              64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
                              64 GT R2
                              63 GT R2
                              63 Lark 2 door
                              59 3E truck
                              58 Starlight
                              52 & 53 Starliner
                              51 Commander

                              JDP Maryland

                              Comment

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