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gm350 trans to flathead six

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  • gm350 trans to flathead six

    Has anyone tried to put a gm350 or t400 on to a 185 flattie? I have that old six singin'sweet ,Ijust am scared to death the tranny's 50 yrs. old and will occasionaly grown.? or at least it makes a weird noise. The deal is , "Here take this motor and tranny!" but I don't want{nor have} the duckets to rebuild it right.I am not to keen on mit but, I may have to biye the bullet and go G *&^%^ C. Any thoughts on how easy the swap would be? Thanks for all you folks help in the past.present and future...

  • #2
    700R4 would be a better fit. Use the 8 cyl adapter plate that was used to put the V8 transmission behind the 6 in the zip vans, and then redrill it for the 700 R4 trans bellhousing. Or, get ahold of Doug at steel solutions, and have him modify one of his 700R4 kits for a 6 instead of a V8.

    The 700R4 has a much better gear spread for a 6. The low and the second are probably lower than the 1rst gear on most THM 350's. And, you get a direct 4th, overdrive, and a locking converter. There are a lot of stock 700's available that are set up for the smaller GM V6's and they would probably be a much better fit engineering wise than the 350.



    Ben

    bekglm1@aol.com
    SIAR/ Special Interest Autos and Restorations
    59 Canadian Lark 2 door 63 full flow 6 cyl 3 OD
    59 Silver Hawk 289 4 bbl 3 OD
    62 Lark Wagon 335 hp 4 bolt small block GM/built THM 350/Versilles RE w/discs
    62 Lark Cruiser 259 auto, TT
    62 Daytona 289 4 bbl PS Auto, TT
    55 President 289 4B PS PB
    54 Commander
    56 Flight Hawk
    53 Champion
    53 Champ R6 Bonneville Race Car "MAYA" Raymond's Revenge Racing Team (3RT Racing)

    Comment


    • #3
      is the 700r4 stout enough to be able to tow a trailer{small-u-haul] I am trying to move operations to san diego..."free garage" and NO FOG!!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        car builders routinely put large high horsepower V8's in front of this transmission. If you are going to add a trailer to your load, also add the approprriate additional cooling for the transmission. This will not only imporve the life of the transmission and fluid, it will increase it's efficiency by reducing internal horsepower lost to heat.

        Ben

        bekglm1@aol.com
        SIAR/ Special Interest Autos and Restorations
        59 Canadian Lark 2 door 63 full flow 6 cyl 3 OD
        59 Silver Hawk 289 4 bbl 3 OD
        62 Lark Wagon 335 hp 4 bolt small block GM/built THM 350/Versilles RE w/discs
        62 Lark Cruiser 259 auto, TT
        62 Daytona 289 4 bbl PS Auto, TT
        55 President 289 4B PS PB
        54 Commander
        56 Flight Hawk
        53 Champion
        53 Champ R6 Bonneville Race Car "MAYA" Raymond's Revenge Racing Team (3RT Racing)

        Comment


        • #5
          The 700R4 is a wonderful transmission .... as long as you get one that
          is from a 1988 or NEWER car. The early 700s are junk. For a straight
          6 you might also look into a 200-4R trans, which was used mostly in a
          number of V6 GM cars. Towing isnt a problem for either trans, what is
          required is a trans cooler. I wouldnt go through the hassle of putting
          in a GM trans UNLESS you get an overdrive model (700/200).

          I dont know if either Steeltech or Myers makes a 6 cylinder version,
          either have email addresses you can contact them through. Actually I
          think that even Fairborn currently has a GM trans adapter. I have the
          Steeltech one from back when he was just Dave Levesque. Worked well.

          Tom

          '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:Originally posted by bekglm1
            The 700R4 has a much better gear spread for a 6. The low and the second are probably lower than the 1rst gear on most THM 350's. And, you get a direct 4th, overdrive, and a locking converter.
            Here's the ratio's...

            TH350
            2.52
            1.52
            1

            TH700R4
            3.06
            1.83
            1
            .72

            TH2004R
            2.74
            1.57
            1
            .67

            The TH2004R's low is not as deep as the TH700R4's which gives it a better gear spread, but it's OD is pretty steep. The 6 may not be able to pull that OD very often.

            TH350's are about half the cost of a TH700 or TH200 (as low as $600-700 rebuilt).

            The "modern" version of the TH700R4 is the electronically controlled 4L60E.

            The TH400 is physically large, heavy, and robs a lot of HP. Unless your 6 is making north of 500 HP, I wouldn't consider it as an option.


            Dick Steinkamp
            Bellingham, WA

            Comment


            • #7
              Any more info/suggestions anyone has on this subject would be great! The trans. in Gertie (59 Lark flat) seems to be working, but now I'm wondering if it would make more sense to update while I've got the engine out... original plan was oil change and front/rear seals and put back in seeing that it shifts fine; but if I was going to change now would be the time... it does have a really sloppy output shaft, which I still haven't determined if it's normal or not...

              This will, of course, not be a show car- but a basically stock driver with dual m/c, and maybe non-correct upholstery...



              Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
              Parish, central NY 13131
              http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

              Comment


              • #8
                Greetings, All,

                As always, your car, your money, but you asked for advice. Sorry, but I just don't see the point of even considering a transmission swap for the flathead six. The only reason imaginable to keep the Champ six in a Studebaker is that it is a restored show car. With a transmission swap, it is no longer in the restored class.

                IMHO, the car needs a better engine way more than it needs a better transmission. Once the door is opened to swaps, there is no stopping place. A Studebaker V8 with a B-W Powershift or a 200-4R swap. A McKinnon V8 with a 200-4R, all these bolt in and are reasonable in price. Once you have a V8, you will wonder why you didn't do it years ago.

                (P.S. anyone who brings up vastly better fuel mileage as a reason to keep the Champ six should look at the results of the Mobilgas Economy Run back when the cars were new. The 1953 Commander V8 got 24.50 mpg and the Champion six-cylinder 26.86 mpg, less than 10% better under the same road and speed conditions. The 1953 results were the only ones I could find quickly. Some years, the V8s were actually more economical.)

                thnx, jack vines

                PackardV8
                PackardV8

                Comment


                • #9
                  What is a McKinnon v8? I just want to have some fun when I open the hood and all those other jokers say "wow that flathead is still runnin' with 200,000 miles,,,and it don't smoke..." Altho kinda low on power it is sooooo nice at a gas station to check my oil level and get asked questions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Jack, sometimes we do things JUST to prove we can, and also to have a
                    car thats different (hense we have Studebakers not Hondas). I think a
                    Stude straight 6 with a modern OD automatic would be interesting. I do
                    know that the deep 1st gear will really pick the weak 6 up, it was an
                    amazing difference going from the FOM to the 700 in my Hawk. The 700
                    REALLY woke up my modified Stude V8. Granted you wont have the loss
                    in a manual that the FOM had, but the lower first will be interesting.

                    When considering swaps like these, I agree its best to weigh all other
                    options along with it. Its critical to map a plan, and not just go on
                    trends and hunches. You end up all over the place, and with a lot less
                    money in the end. Ask yourself what you want to end up with.

                    Tom

                    quote:Originally posted by PackardV8
                    Sorry, but I just don't see the point of even considering a transmission swap for the flathead six. The only reason imaginable to keep the Champ six in a Studebaker is that it is a restored show car....IMHO, the car needs a better engine way more than it needs a better transmission.
                    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by PackardV8


                      As always, your car, your money, but you asked for advice. Sorry, but I just don't see the point of even considering a transmission swap for the flathead six.
                      For me, I just happen to LOVE the sound of the old flattie[^] I know that puts me in a VERY small minority, but not every car needs to be filling the wheel openings with smoke or hurtling down a dragstrip! I just love that purr; I've got a V8 wagon (love that too) and just got a GT donor with a 289 4-spd. that I'll use to build a mild muscle-car. But there's plenty of room for a 6 banger in my collection; after all, how could a car called Ol' Gertie have anything BUT a flat 6?[^] The 6s are enjoyable to drive, and a good change from all the 8s and conversions.

                      Having said that, the reason to swap is to have a more efficient, durable, and/or dependable trans. that might be easier and cheaper to get rebuilt when necessary. Plus the right trans. will be geared better for everyday drivability. Like the dual M/C, this is an upgrade to more modern technology that improves everyday practical use- yet sitting with the hood up will appear to most onlookers to be just as she was born[^]

                      No offense to the power guys; I like them too. But I'm staying with the flattie for this one!

                      It's true we asked for advice... I appreciate it! But now you know why one would consider the subject of this thread

                      Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                      Parish, central NY 13131
                      http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Originally posted by sbca96

                        Jack, sometimes we do things JUST to prove we can
                        Huh... interesting... never thought of that one, Tom! But I can assure you- that's never a a reason for me. I've had a life that's been blessed with enough success that I don't have anything to prove to anybody[^]

                        My reasons are stated above

                        Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                        Parish, central NY 13131
                        http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have to say "I LOVE THE SOUND TOO!" We have lots of foriegn cars here in S.F..They all look and sound the same. I have to say I will never lose my car in a parking lot,and at almost every stoplite someone will ask if it's some custom or new style of T-Bird..I'm not to happy about the F//d inference,but I like that people think it's NEW.LOL .I will see if I can find someone that will trade the 350/350 that I have for a 700r4.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Careful of anyone that would trade a 700 for a 350, its probably a
                            burned up early model, and only good for a mail box stand in Texas.[]
                            The early ones need parts to beef them up, and CAN be brought up to a
                            later standing, but it requires more money then rebuilding the right
                            one the first time. If you look around you can find used good ones
                            for pretty cheap these days (250-400 complete). With my Hawks swap I
                            just used a 30k mile one, with a quick checkup. Its now in my Dad's
                            1969 Avanti II.

                            Bams .. I meant prove to yourself. Thats why I took on the Cobra/GT
                            brake project, I didnt see a reason why I couldnt do it. While I do
                            care what others think, I set goals for myself.

                            Tom

                            quote:Originally posted by stan zoerner
                            I will see if I can find someone that will trade the 350/350 that I have for a 700r4.
                            '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                            Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                            I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              200 R4's were the most failure prone transmissions GM ever built (probably worse than the 58 turbo glide that was put behind the 348). GM was sued for millions by class action groups over this trans (200). Stay away at any cost. There are a lot of good 700's available at very good prices. Most flexible, lightest, most common for smaller to larger swaps. It's just a great transmission.

                              Ben

                              bekglm1@aol.com
                              SIAR/ Special Interest Autos and Restorations
                              59 Canadian Lark 2 door 63 full flow 6 cyl 3 OD
                              59 Silver Hawk 289 4 bbl 3 OD
                              62 Lark Wagon 335 hp 4 bolt small block GM/built THM 350/Versilles RE w/discs
                              62 Lark Cruiser 259 auto, TT
                              62 Daytona 289 4 bbl PS Auto, TT
                              55 President 289 4B PS PB
                              54 Commander
                              56 Flight Hawk
                              53 Champion
                              53 Champ R6 Bonneville Race Car "MAYA" Raymond's Revenge Racing Team (3RT Racing)

                              Comment

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