Electrical: Avanti neutral safety switch

[Guest]

Just so I'm certain with my wiring, the neutral safety switch on my 63 Avanti shifter is at the bottom, correct? The back-up light switch on the top... or am I backwards in my wiring?

Thought I finished up all the wiring. In the accessory position, everything seems to work fine, but when I hit the starter nothing happens. No clicks, pops, fizzles...nothing. It's like that rocket that didn't go the other day. I had to laugh...

The thing that I'm not square with is the fact I have nothing going to the "S" on the solenoid. The "S" wire from my ign switch goes to the neutral safety sw. and from there to the "I" side of the starter solenoid. Shouldn't I have a wire on the "S" terminal? Mind you, a previous owner transplanted a chevy 305 with HEI into this car. Thanks!

[Bob Caser]

If you are using the Ford /Studebaker solenoid switch it probably needs to be grounded. Your one wire hook up will work as well.

Bob Caser

[bezhawk]

The neutral switch wire should go to the "S" terminal on the solenoid. There should be a seperate light green wire with a black tracer going from the "I" terminal to the coil. This bypasses the resister for full starting voltage to the coil.
This was overlooked and added after the fact and is not part of the main harness. (on early cars).

[Bob Caser]

Does the car still have the Chevy with the HEI, if so it is a different game than the original "S" and "I" original set up.

Bob Caser

[bezhawk]

Bob is right. With a chevy starter, the solenoid is on the starter. The wire from neutral switch would be the one to the pull in winding of the solenoid.
The neutral switch is in series with the ignition switch.

[Guest]

Bob, the solenoid switch is grounded directly to the negative battery terminal.
Yes, the starter has the solenoid on the side, but the switch is on the inner fender.

I'm just not 100% sure I've got the wiring on the right switch at the shifter. This car was so butchered in it's wiring, I had to start over.

I just know there's a simple answer to this.

[Bob Caser]

I had the same problem many years ago , I run a ground wire from the solenoid bracket, to a ground. There are far better electrical people than me on this forum, that probably have a better solution to your problem. Try the ground wire and see if it works.

Bob Caser

[Rerun]

Bob, the solenoid switch is grounded directly to the negative battery terminal.
Yes, the starter has the solenoid on the side, but the switch is on the inner fender.

I'm just not 100% sure I've got the wiring on the right switch at the shifter. This car was so butchered in it's wiring, I had to start over.

I just know there's a simple answer to this.

First of all, turn on the key, put the selector in "R" and see if the back-up lights come on. That will help in determining that the switches are wired correctly. Check to see if there is 12V on the wire from the neutral safety switch (to the solenoid) when you turn the key to the start position, and the shifter is in P or N.

If I'm understanding your situation, you currently have TWO solenoids, the original Studebaker solenoid on the fender apron, and the GM solenoid on the starter.

Remove the old Studebaker solenoid. You don't need/want it there anymore.

Run the battery "+" cable directly to the large lug on the starter-mounted GM solenoid. You'll need a longer cable.

Make sure that the battery "-" cable is securely fastened to the engine block.

Run the wire from your neutral safety switch to the small lug on the solenoid.

When the solenoid sees 12V from the ignition S terminal, through the neutral safety switch, it will pull in the solenoid plunger, engage and fire the starter.

As far as the ignition, I don't know if the HEI that you have has a resistor bypass for starting. Some ignition systems run on a reduced voltage (using a ballast resistor). When the starter solenoid is powered, a full 12V is tapped from the solenoid, and used to power the ignition with a higher than normal voltage to aid starting. This was the function of the other thin wire on your Studebaker solenoid, normally a green/black if I recall. You should find the other end of this wire somewhere back in the vicinity of the distributor. This wire can be abandoned.

Your HEI probably does not not use this reduced voltage system, and probably runs on full 12V all of the time. Do you know the vintage of your HEI? Maybe someone with more GM experience could chime in on this.

[Guest]

Thanks Jim! I'm learning as I go on this.
When I got home from work today I bypassed the bottom switch on the shifter and put both ends of the wires together. It's got to be the NS switch.
Then with a battery post cable pulled, I turned on the ignition and went around to the front and rigged my hand switch I use to bump the starter, putting one on the BAT side of the Stude solenoid and the other on the "S" lug next to it. Said a prayer and pushed the button. It fired right up and ran nice!

I know it's not too smart to go without the NS switch, so I'll bite the bullet and get one from SI if they're still available. This goes along with the previous owner replacing a Stude engine/tranny with the chevy 305 and TH350. Things don't match up right and heaven knows how the guy I bought the car from even got it running in the first place.

Now I'll go out and remove that Stude solenoid on the inner fender.

[Bob Caser]

I would keep the Stude solenoid switch. You can use a single wire from the n/s switch to the solenoid (s) terminal and a battery cable from the solenoid switch to the battery lug on the starter. The secret is to bridge the two wires on the Chevy solenoid. This will eliminate the two small wires from the Chevy solenoid.
MAD Enterprise offers a kit to do this
What you gain is stronger voltage and helps with any future heat soak problems because the starter is so close to the exhaust system.
I still believe you will have to run a ground wire on the solenoid switch, by using your remote starter the way you have just by passed the circuit.

Bob

[Guest]

Thanks Bob! I took the jumper switch off and tried starting the car with the key. Nothing. With both solenoids still in place, I took the NS wire off the "I" terminal and moved it to the "S" lug on the Stude solenoid. Key started just fine. My voltage gauge shows around 15v while it's running. Yikes! Too high?

I much prefer the sound of a Stude V8 to this 305, BTW. Sounds like a chevy when it starts. (Like the unmistakable sound of Mopar in the 60s and 70s.)
Where on this engine can I find a number to determine when it was made?

Also my first car with HEI. I must have spent 10 minutes looking for a coil when I brought it home. :-)

[Bob Caser]

That's good news. Are you using a amp gauge or a voltmeter ? Where is the alternator lead hooked up to ? I will send you a PM later to help work out your problems. Pretty funny about the HEI coil. HEI"s do need 12 volts direct to operate.

Bov

[Guest]

Bob - It's a voltmeter and I need to correct myself... it's reading 14v not 15.
I have a GM one-wire alternator and the 10ga lead goes to the battery side of the solenoid.

I adjusted the NS switch to close the circuit at the P and N detents on the shifter.
Now to get the back-up lights to work!

[Bob Caser]

Tom,
Sounds like you got it solved. Voltage is fine at 14 V. Are you running a small wire from the Stude solenoid down the Chevy solenoid ? Forget about the back up lights Avanti means forward.

Bob

[Rerun]

Where on this engine can I find a number to determine when it was made?

There is a series of numbers stamped on the right front of the block, just below the head. You will probably need to remove the alternator to see them. These numbers will decode and give the specifics of the engine. There are several sites on line that can be used to convert the codes.