Engine: T-10 conversion...Crankshaft bolts to flywheel

[Doug Bowen]

I am getting closer to doing my swap from auto to T-10 in my '64 Commander. I need to install different length crank flange bolts for the flywheel... which leads to my question for you:

Is it better to simply pull the engine to remove the pan and back bearing cap to get at the crankshaft bolts or is it possible to leave the engine in the car and drop the pan?

Leaving it in the car seems like it could be a much bigger pain than just biting the bullet and pulling the darned thing.

Your thoughts and experiences please.

Doug

Ps...I have the original 55,000 mile 259 available if anyone is interested. (needs a rebuild)

[SN-60]

To: Doug Bowen,---- In My opinion, if You have the means to do it, definitely pull the engine to do this conversion work.

[DEEPNHOCK]

I have done a couple of conversions and countersunk the mount bolt holes in the flywheel a quarter inch.
No need for a bolt change.
Still out there running...

[r1lark]

Doug,

One thing to think about when deciding to pull the engine or not is..........the process of aligning the bellhousing to the engine and drilling/reaming the dowel pins. I've done this with the engine in the car - once - and I wouldn't do it again! And that was with the car on a lift.

[kmac530]

If you have an engine hoist available, I would pull the engine. I just removed my hood, grill, radiator and core support and the engine came out super easily. Probably 20 bolts total to do that and I removed and reinstalled it by myself, with a bad neck. Easy Peasy.
I would remove it myself. And I am a "cut corners" kind of guy whenever possible.

[Paul Keller]

Aligned and doweled my Hawk's T-10 while in the car on a lift in a trans shop - Would not do it again. Very difficult to get an accurate R/O reading.
Paul TK

[Doug Bowen]

Thanks Guys...you have confirmed that my gut feel was correct. I'll yank the engine! (...although I really was intrigued about counterboring the flywheel for the shorter bolts!)
D

[JoeHall]

Thanks Guys...you have confirmed that my gut feel was correct. I'll yank the engine! (...although I really was intrigued about counterboring the flywheel for the shorter bolts!)
D

Funny you mentioned this, and maybe a little more info may help you. Just this morning, I removed the flywheel (which was modified for the shorter bolts about 250,000 miles ago) from the engine I am swapping out in the GT. Before removal, I took a few pix. Then later today, after having the flywheel resurfaced, I snapped a couple more pix. I also reviewed my notes from yester-decade, and took some measurements that may be helpful: First, though the automatic tranny bolts are .250" shorter, the countersinks only need to be .180" in order to allow the nut to fit flush with the end of the stud. This is accomplished by using .030" thick "wave" washers, instead of the original .100" lock-washers. (Of course, always use red Lock-Tite also.) The flywheel is .455" thick in the bolthole area; the countersinks leave .275" of "meat" there to hold the flywheel in place. This has proven more than enough in my GT, which has towed several 56Js a total of around 5,000 miles, and U'Haul trailers, loaded to the gills, about 5,000 miles. I have never abused the car however, i.e. "burnt rubber". To me, it is inconceivable that anyone would pull the engine to swap those bolts, when any competent machinist can modify the flywheel for few dollars. But as many others say here, your car your money; I would add, and your labor.

[JoeHall]

I forgot to mention, the OD of the countersunk holes is .805". This allows room for a six-point socket to slip fully onto the nut.

Also, maybe this mod won't hold up for you since you are installing a 4-speed, and many who like 4-speeds also like to burn rubber Even so, the mod will probably still hold up just fine, it's just that I have never tested that way, so can't say for sure.

I will post pix here, if I ever take the time to figure out how to.

[kmac530]

Joe,
I have a 3 speed and I plan on "burning rubber"...

Not sure I will have a choice with 289, big cam, bumped compression, porting....all on a truck with 5.30 rear gears and NO bed so it is really light in the rear...I am thinking wheel spin is going to be inevitable...cool.

[Doug Bowen]

Joe, I really appreciate the technical specifics on dimensions for the counterbored flywheel approach. As I said above, it really intrigued me. After reading Jeff Rice's post (above) I pulled out my flywheel and took a look. Picturing that the flywheel was "about an inch thick", I got cold feet when I saw how thin the flange counterbore area was. I was guessing (without checking actual dimensions) that there would only be about .125" left. Now that I have your dimensions, I don't think that .275" of meat left would be so bad. Actually you have proved it by logging over 200,000 miles on the modification. I am going to still pull the engine to do the necessary concentricity check/corrections/pinning, but I really would like not to have to break apart a currently bone-dry engine just to replace the darned flange bolts.

I am going on 63 and just don't see myself running this girl at the drags. Neither have I ever been the guy who likes to try to pave the township roads with my hard-paid-for tires to impress the girls (at 63 this isn't a concern anyway!)..I just love going through the gears. All automatics, quite frankly, bore the hell out of me. (don't mean to offend anyone)

I would really appreciate any pics you might have if you can get them posted. Thanks again...Doug

[JoeHall]

Joe,
I have a 3 speed and I plan on "burning rubber"...

Not sure I will have a choice with 289, big cam, bumped compression, porting....all on a truck with 5.30 rear gears and NO bed so it is really light in the rear...I am thinking wheel spin is going to be inevitable...cool.

You mentioned 3 speed, so I hope you are talking about a T85, and not a T86. If T86, the flywheel is gonna be the least of your problems. You'll go thru at least 25 tranny rebuilds before ever having to even think about the clutch, let alone the flywheel

[JoeHall]

Joe, I really appreciate the technical specifics on dimensions for the counterbored flywheel approach. As I said above, it really intrigued me. After reading Jeff Rice's post (above) I pulled out my flywheel and took a look. Picturing that the flywheel was "about an inch thick", I got cold feet when I saw how thin the flange counterbore area was. I was guessing (without checking actual dimensions) that there would only be about .125" left. Now that I have your dimensions, I don't think that .275" of meat left would be so bad. I would really appreciate any pics you might have if you can get them posted. Thanks again...Doug

Doug I just PM'd you. If you wanna send me your email I will attach and send you pix.

Joe H

[kmac530]

You mentioned 3 speed, so I hope you are talking about a T85, and not a T86. If T86, the flywheel is gonna be the least of your problems. You'll go thru at least 25 tranny rebuilds before ever having to even think about the clutch, let alone the flywheel

I wish...T86 here.
I am aware it will not last....part of the fun isn't it?
The truck is so light in the back I actually doubt I will have trans trouble without putting some weight on the rear.
The whole truck weighed in at 3300 lbs and that was with the front wheels on a tow dolly and weighing the dolly...at least 400 lbs I would say, so roughly 2900 lbs without a bed and with a v8 conversion. With the V8 in the front, and that so far out over the front axle, the back end is very light.

[Skybolt]

I don't know if any have done this before but I have and have seen it done many times. That is to cut the old auto bolts off and tap the crank. Then one can use bolts from the flywheel side. Not saying this is right or better but I didnt note any failures with higher than stock hp. This was done even with the crank on a new rebuild.