Steering: Bad idea? Possible c/k front suspension

[bob1940cab]

Guys,
as a lurker on the forum, I have seen many of the posts for front suspension changes. Especially the rack & pinion conversions. Mine is a 53 ht with 327 xxevy. I can not see how I can use a factory cast exhaust manifold on driver side. I have seen the block hugger headers used but I just wanted a cast manifold. That inboard sector & pitman arm, reach rod & pivot arm bother me. I don"t mind the crossmember & kingpins.
Here it is: It seems there have been millions of cars with the power sector box, along inside frame down with underneath pitman arm. Attached to the centerlink, across to opposite frame with idler arm & drag links to the steering arms. Since the Stude has these two steering arms, COULD a centerlink, drag links with a similar distance across be fabbed to the stude frame?
All would have similar mount dimensions as the sample suspension car. The sector mount & idler arm mount could be fabricated to the frame. This would keep my front Stude suspension, but update to a later power sector & design.
Are my thoughts full of Bull S or ????? what do you say?

Bob in Montgomery, Texas.

[DEEPNHOCK]

Sure.. Why not?
Someone with good fabricating skills, a decent knowledge of steering and suspension geometry, and no fear, could make that concept work.
If there was just one 'best' suspension/steering setup out there, the industry would be locked up forever.
But there are so many variables out there that getting the best combination for 'that' vehicle, in 'that' operating environment...
That's totally variable.
The people that shoot down an idea usually do so from (a) their own bad experience, or (b) someone else's bad experience,
or (c) their lack of fab skills, or (d) all of the above.
One thing to remember... Some of the brightest minds have the greatest ideas...
But they never see the light of day because of production costs, or corporate decisions.
Best advice I could add is to look long and hard at the most successful aftermarket swap setups and copy them.
(With the emphasis on 'successful'... Not necessarily 'popular', or 'inexpensive'....think 'successful' as in 'works right')
They have scienced out a lot of the up front work, and cost issues.

[SN-60]

To: bob1940cab,---- Are You sure there will be a clearance issue between a factory chevy manifold and the stock steering? I'd check that out first.

[bezhawk]

The center outlet "Rams Horn" chevy manifolds will work .....I've done it, and so have many others. However if you really want to fab things up, don't let anyone deter you.
I've noticed a honda oddesy van has a firewall mounted rack and pinion with center point linkages and rear facing steering arms like Studebaker used.

[SN-60]

To: bezhawk,-------- If You replace Your word 'fab' with another word starting with the letter 'F', I'd be in agreement with You!!

[bezhawk]

To SN-60.....Sorry I dissagree, if he wants to fabricate something and enjoys doing so, why knock it? If he has the talent and keeps safety in the forfront it's his car, and can do anything he wants.
Perhaps he'll come up with a system the YOU will be wanting to use in the future.
Our mission, as ambassadors to the club, is to encourage participation and share knowledge of what has been tried, not to discourage what hasn't.

[Pat Dilling]

If the primary reason you want to change the steering is for exhaust clearance, that problem has been solved literally hundreds of times by engine swappers, including Studebaker. There are hundreds of exhaust manifold designs for the small block Chevy including the ones bezhawk mentioned. On the other hand if you want to try your hand at a rack and pinion conversion I say go for it. And please keep us posted.

Pat

[SN-60]

To: bezhawk,----------- I respect Your opinion on this subject. I guess I'm having thoughts of what may happen if the person attempting changes like this isn't a skilled fabricator. Take care

[1962larksedan]

Guys,
as a lurker on the forum, I have seen many of the posts for front suspension changes. Especially the rack & pinion conversions. Mine is a 53 ht with 327 xxevy. I can not see how I can use a factory cast exhaust manifold on driver side. I have seen the block hugger headers used but I just wanted a cast manifold. That inboard sector & pitman arm, reach rod & pivot arm bother me. I don"t mind the crossmember & kingpins.
Here it is: It seems there have been millions of cars with the power sector box, along inside frame down with underneath pitman arm. Attached to the centerlink, across to opposite frame with idler arm & drag links to the steering arms. Since the Stude has these two steering arms, COULD a centerlink, drag links with a similar distance across be fabbed to the stude frame?
All would have similar mount dimensions as the sample suspension car. The sector mount & idler arm mount could be fabricated to the frame. This would keep my front Stude suspension, but update to a later power sector & design.
Are my thoughts full of Bull S or ????? what do you say?

Bob in Montgomery, Texas.

That same thought has crossed my mind as well. Note that the tie rods will have to swing in the same arc as your lower control arms or you will probably have severe bump steer problems. A possible source for your linkage may be a 1954-56 Ford car; especially in light of Borgeson having an integral PS conversion gear.

[Dick Steinkamp]

If the engine is already installed in the car, you may have trouble finding a stock, cast manifold to work with the stock steering. If you haven't installed the engine yet, you can probably play with front to rear and side to side placement to get one to fit. It is tight on that side for sure.

I had a 327 in my 53 hardtop. My goal on engine placement was to have the 4 speed shifter end up in the best position, AND to be able to run the stock fan shroud and an engine driven fan.



To accomplish this, there was no way I could fit a stock exhaust manifold where the engine would end up in the chassis. I kept the stock steering, but even with the block huggers I had to drop the steering column at the frame mount a half an inch, move it back a half an inch, and lengthen the reach rod. I also shortened the stock column 2" to get the steering wheel out of my face.

I like your steering concept, but I would personally not go through that work JUST to fit a stock exhaust manifold (I'm lazy!). Rebuilt stock suspension and steering actually works quite nice.

[bob1940cab]

If the engine is already installed in the car, you may have trouble finding a stock, cast manifold to work with the stock steering. If you haven't installed the engine yet, you can probably play with front to rear and side to side placement to get one to fit. It is tight on that side for sure.

I had a 327 in my 53 hardtop. My goal on engine placement was to have the 4 speed shifter end up in the best position, AND to be able to run the stock fan shroud and an engine driven fan.



To accomplish this, there was no way I could fit a stock exhaust manifold where the engine would end up in the chassis. I kept the stock steering, but even with the block huggers I had to drop the steering column at the frame mount a half an inch, move it back a half an inch, and lengthen the reach rod. I also shortened the stock column 2" to get the steering wheel out of my face.

I like your steering concept, but I would personally not go through that work JUST to fit a stock exhaust manifold (I'm lazy!). Rebuilt stock suspension and steering actually works quite nice.

To all,
Having power steering & a Ram horn manifolds are the reasons for looking at this change. We are pulling the 327 & powerglide out next week. Changing to a 350 turbo. At present mine is a mess. The driver side has a cast manifold that dumps out at front to clear steering.
The pipe goes down turns underneath & across under the balancer , turns back down passenger side (no mech fuel pump) where the pass ram horn T's straight down into pipe. The remainder of exhaust travels along the pass side to finish as a single exhaust. I have got to get rid of this mess. We are doing something & will let you know.
Still cannot believe D Steinkamp sold that great car.
Later, Bob im Montgomery, Texas.

[Dick Steinkamp]

To all,

Still cannot believe D Steinkamp sold that great car.

Actually, I can't believe why anyone would KEEP one. Once you have the fun of finding one, networking for parts, and building it, then you take it to a car show and sit behind it in a lawn chair and have people talk to you about how they had one just like it...except it was a Rambler.

I like the first three things about the hobby better than the fourth.

[junior]

If you can figure out an effective ps unit for the C/K Studes then go for it, and I'm sure many folks will follow suit and copy what you've figured out. In the mean time, I'm not too sure of your exact engine location and mount system, but my 54 coupe had a SBC and turbo 350 combination and used a standard straight outlet rams horn manifold set up. Granted, it doesn't use standard sidemounts, but there is clearance around the steering box, which is a saginaw, not ross box. With a stock sized steering wheel and 215 section front tires the steering is a little heavy at parking lot speeds, but once on the road the effort lightens up considerably. Why not try this setup and see what it's like, and then figure out a ps setup if you figure you still need it. Good luck, and hopefully you can get rid of that dreadful present driver's side set up you have right now....If you can share some photos of it that would be great as an example of what not to do. Regards, Junior

[bob1940cab]

If you can figure out an effective ps unit for the C/K Studes then go for it, and I'm sure many folks will follow suit and copy what you've figured out. In the mean time, I'm not too sure of your exact engine location and mount system, but my 54 coupe had a SBC and turbo 350 combination and used a standard straight outlet rams horn manifold set up. Granted, it doesn't use standard sidemounts, but there is clearance around the steering box, which is a saginaw, not ross box. With a stock sized steering wheel and 215 section front tires the steering is a little heavy at parking lot speeds, but once on the road the effort lightens up considerably. Why not try thi[ATTACH=CONFIG]14019[/ATTACH]s setup and see what it's like, and then figure out a ps setup if you figure you still need it. Good luck, and hopefully you can get r[ATTACH=CONFIG]14018[/ATTACH]id of that dreadful present driver's side set up you have right now....If you can share some photos of it that would be great as an ex[ATTACH=CONFIG]14017[/ATTACH]ample of what not to do. Regards, Junior

UPDATE & HOW NOT TO DO AN EXHAUST
Another reason for change is yes I have the ROSS box. A clarification as I will be looking for a COMPLETE centerlink OEM swap with fab of steering box & idler mount only. I could never fab the entire thing. The pics are sad & plenty dirty, don't laugh too loud. Still learning with PICS posting.
Bob in Montgomery Texas

[junior]

Thanks for posting the photos. I will not laugh, as your car doesn`t look all that dirty. I can see why you want to get rid of the system you have. I think I would at least try a stock rams horn on the drivers side to see if if fits, and if it does just go with that a a true dual system. I guess there is nothing really wrong with what you have, as many cars came from the factory this way, just looks awkward, and not taking advantage of all the power the engine is capable of making. Keep us posted on what you come up with, good luck, Junior.