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Paint: Standardized List of Colors

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  • Other: Paint: Standardized List of Colors

    So,

    It snowed last night and today's inspection cancelled 'cuz he didn't want me to inspect the roof if I couldn't see the entire surface and he didn't want to pay for me to make a return trip to the home 25 miles away after the snow has melted off the roof. Oh well.

    While I'm sitting here dinking around in my office today, I decided to start an off-the-top-of-my-head list of the proper colors used on the P.H. I've been sitting here going through hundreds of photos (modern color and black and white original shop manuals) and trying to compile a list. It ain't been easy.

    Hoping some of the more experienced stude brethren can look this list over and tell me if they spot any errors here. Please disregard the body color schemes. I found all of that on the Packard Club site:

    Model: Packard Hawk
    Year Manufactured: 1958
    Body Style: 2dr. Coupe
    Engine: 289 V8 (Supercharged)

    Body Color Scheme

    Body Colors: xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx
    Trim Colors: xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx,
    Factory combinations: xxx/xxx, xxx/xxx, xxx/xxx, xxx/xxx, xxx/xxx, xxx/xxx

    Chassis Color Scheme

    Chassis color: Chassis black (matte)
    Body to chassis bolts: zinc phosphate

    Steering:

    Upper and Lower control arm shafts: Raw forged steel
    Upper and lower control arm shaft bolts: Zinc phosphate plated
    Inner shaft bushings - top and bottom: Bolts and washer are cadmium plated
    Upper and lower control arms: Chassis black (matte)
    Upper and lower control arm bushings: Chassis black (matte)
    Steering knuckles - Upper and Lower: Chassis black (matte)
    Steering knuckle - kingpin: Raw cast iron
    Coil Springs: Chassis black (matte)
    Stabilizer bar: Chassis black (matte)
    Stabilizer link bolts: Cadmium plated
    Tie rods and ends: Chassis black w/zinc phosphate bolts
    Bell crank and lever: Chassis black (matte) Nut is zinc phosphat coated
    Shock absorbers: Chassis black (matte)

    Brakes Color Scheme

    Master cylinder: Raw iron
    Master cylinder reservoir cover: Chassis black (matte) (??)
    Brake pedals/levers: Chassis black (matte)
    Backer plates: Chassis black (matte)
    Brake drums: Chassis black (matte)
    Brake lines - steel: Chassis black (??)
    Brake lines - flex: Black rubber w/cadmium plated ends
    E brake pivot draw arm, bolt and clinch: Cadmium plated

    Gas Tank Color Scheme

    Tank: Chassis black (matte)
    Tank bolts and washers: zinc phosphate coated

    Drive Train

    Bell housing: Raw metal
    Bell housing bolts: zinc phospate coated
    Transmission: Raw metal
    Driveshaft - Chassis black (matte)
    U-joints - Raw metal
    Axle & Differential housing: Chassis black (matte)
    Differential Cover: Raw metal

    Rear Suspension

    Rear swing arms: Chassis black (matte)
    Swing arm bolts: Cadmium plated
    Spring shakles: Chassis black (matte)
    Shackle bolts: Cadmium plated (??)
    Leaf Springs: Chassis black (matte)
    Rear shocks: Chassis black (matte)
    Shock bolts - top and bottom: Cadmium plated

    Engine Compartment

    Air cleaner bonnet: Gloss black
    Generator bracket and adjustment arm: Engine black (matte)
    Generator body: Engine black (matte)
    Generator ends: Raw aluminum
    Generator pulley and can cooler: Cadmium plated
    Generator pivot bolt: zinc phosphate coated
    Generator adjustment bolt and washer: Cadmium plated
    Supercharger housing: Engine black (semi-gloss)
    Supercharger input shaft pulley: Engine black (semi-gloss) (or Cadmium plated???)
    Supercharger idler arm: Aluminum paint - semi-gloss
    Supercharger idler pulley: Engine black - semi-gloss
    Supercharger bracket: Aluminum paint - semi-gloss
    Supercharger spring: Raw metal (zinc phosphate ??)
    Water pump housing: Aluminum paint - semi-gloss
    Water pump: ???
    Water pump pulley: Engine black - semi-gloss
    Cooling fan: Engine black - semi-gloss
    Power steering pump and reservoir: Engine black (semi-gloss)
    Oil filter flange: Raw aluminum
    Oil filler/breather cap: Engine black (semi-gloss)
    Oil filler tube: Aluminum paint - semi-gloss
    Rocker arm covers: Engine black (semi-gloss)
    Rocker arm cover studs: Cadmium plated
    Rocker arm cover nuts: Cadmium plated
    Valley cover: Engine black (semi-gloss)
    Valley cover bolts: Cadmium plated
    Engine block and heads: (Aluminum paint - semi-gloss)
    Intake manifold: Aluminum paint - semi-gloss
    Intake manifold bolts: Zinc phosphate coated
    Oil pan: Aluminum paint - semi-gloss
    Crankshaft pulley: Engine black - semi-gloss
    Battery base: Dipped in black liquid rubber and cured
    Battery hold-down: Dipped in black liquid rubber and cured
    Battery hold-down bolts: Zinc phosphate coated
    Battery hold-down nut and washers: Cadmium plated
    Battery hold-down-to-body bracket: Cadmium plated
    Air chamber cover: Raw aluminum (clear coated??)
    Coil: Gloss black
    Coil bracket and bolts: Cadmium plated
    Brake booster can: Black semi-gloss
    Booster mounting bracket: Black semi-gloss
    Booster can bolts: Cadmium plated
    Radiator hose clamps: Cadmium plated
    Heater hose spring clamps: Zinc phosphate coated
    Heater hose-to-body brackets: Cadmium plated

    Just wondering how difficult it would be to produce a document that lists the "proper" colors for various components on various models of Studebakers by year. Perhaps it's already been done.

    The reason I ask is that on the Packard Club site they had a page dedicated to various colors and they list them by model and year. Since it's posted to their site, I'm guessing that they consider those, by consensus, to be the proper colors for those components. For us '57 and '58 owners it's a little iffy over there though. They mostly only show stuff up through '56 'cuz they consider the '57 and '58's to be red-headed step-childred due to their coming out of the Studebaker plant instead of the Packard plant in Detroit.

    Could such lists not be compiled by consensus here by SDC members, and then posted to the site, so that newbies don't have to continually ask the same questions?
    Last edited by hausdok; 01-17-2012, 06:50 PM.
    Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
    Kenmore, Washington
    hausdok@msn.com

    '58 Packard Hawk
    '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
    '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
    '69 Pontiac Firebird
    (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

  • #2
    Pretty neat set of specs there Mike, but I don't have the patience today to read beyond the Model, Lol !

    "Body Style: 2dr. Coupe" While it is true some people call these Hardtop Coupes, they really are "K" Body Hardtops! definately not Coupes!


    I know it's a minor detail, but things like that which are wrong, just kind of "JUMP" out at me, sorry.

    Did I ever say that in my Job as Manufacturing Engineer at Boeing and Northrop, I wrote a lot of Manufacturing Instructions, and got pretty good at proofreading them?
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Rich,

      You're right of course. It absolutely is a K-body. I understand that. I think I picked up the coupe description from Packard Info.com from the Packard Model Info page for the Hawk where they described the Hawk as a 2-door coupe. I think folks get confused by the 58 Packards. The body parts catalog lists both the J body and the K body in the "Hardtop" section, but Packard commonly termed their larger 2-doors as sedans and their smaller sportier 2-doors as "hardtop coupes." It says Packard on my registration so I was just trying to be obedient to the Packard gods over at PackardInfo.com, even though I've never seen anything in print from 1957 - 1958 timeframe that referred to the P.H. as anything other than the "Hawk" - not Packard Golden Hawk as so many people insist on terming it and definitely not coupe.

      Jeez, us P.H. lovers can't get any love from either side. Like I said, the red-headed step children.
      Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
      Kenmore, Washington
      hausdok@msn.com

      '58 Packard Hawk
      '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
      '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
      '69 Pontiac Firebird
      (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by hausdok View Post
        So>>><<<Could such lists not be compiled by consensus here by SDC members, and then posted to the site, so that newbies don't have to continually ask the same questions?
        Why not simply order yourself a copy of Studebaker Engineering's Paint Instruction Sheets??? They should be numbers P-5700 (for 1957 models) and P-5800 (for 1958 models). There are typically 30 or so pages for each model year. You can order them through here: http://www.studebakermuseum.org/p/ar...-and-products/

        Good Luck!!!

        FWIW; only the underside of the GAS TANK was to receive paint on those coming off the production line. Studebaker used Black Chassis - air dry, paint #8014, Symbol: ZNE, supplied by the O'Brien Company (of South Bend).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by hausdok View Post
          I found all of that on the Packard Club site
          Originally posted by hausdok View Post
          I think I picked up the coupe description from Packard Info.com from the Packard Model Info page for the Hawk where they described the Hawk as a 2-door coupe.
          I may be reading this wrong, or just not quite 'getting' what you are trying to say.
          You know that PackardInfo.com is NOT a 'Packard Club' site, right? It's one of the reasons I hang out there- they seem to have a much better attitude towards the SB Packards...
          StudeDave '57
          US Navy (retired)

          3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
          SDC Member since 1985

          past President
          Whatcom County Chapter SDC
          San Diego Chapter SDC

          past Vice President
          San Diego Chapter SDC
          North Florida Chapter SDC

          Comment


          • #6
            A lot of this work has already been done. Try to get a copy of January 2003 Turning Wheels and see the article by Richard Quinn.
            As far as things like correct markings on bolt heads, or degree of gloss on under-car items, I hope this club never becomes that obsessed!

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Dave,

              I'm not trying to say anything. I'm not arguing with you; I'm agreeing with you. I know PackardInfo.com is not the club website. I visit the Packard Club website all the time. Their information is not as complete as PackardInfo.com's in my opinion. Heck, they don't even list production numbers from 53 on, stating they are "undetermined" and they explain the hawk serial number data plate incorrectly. I actually wrote to them about that, sent them a copy of the plate explanation, along with an annotated copy of an actual Hawk dataplate and they still seemed like they didn't give a rat's patootie about it.

              I called it a Hardtop coupe because when I read the description for the 58L-K9 on Packard Info.com in the section titled "Packard Model Information" the site states under General Information:

              "No more Clippers, just Packards for 1958, but line-up is expanded to four body styles. New two-door sports hardtop coupe is based on Studebaker 1957 Golden Hawk 400 luxury model, but Packard Hawk takes things a step further with: embossed leather armrests mounted outside of the side windows, at the belt line; embossed, gold Mylar applique on rear fins; and a unique spare-tire blister on the trunk lid, which was borrowed from the 1953-55 Studebaker coupes. Sloping hood and extended front-end panel form a grille-less opening that is often compared to a vacuum-cleaner or fish-mouth. Unique front bumper gives a lower look. PACKARD letters applied to front-end, in conjunction with Studebaker's Hawk emblem. Gold-plated Packard script plates from 1956 Senior Series are used. New wheel covers feature red hex centers and are designed for 14-inch wheels, which lower the car. Hawk is the only supercharged Packard this year. - BH"

              Dwain,

              I would say that the only one obsessed is me. I'm a borderline OCD personality and some things, not all things, drive me a little nuts. If I were building a restomod, I wouldn't care - everything would be fair game. But I'm trying to return my car to as close to showroom condition as I can - as many here do. Ever see that beautiful parade red P.H. in Ohio that the fellow has been trying to sell for the past year - the one with the orange supercharger, cowl mounted master cylinder and wire wheels? I'm a newbie at this, but all of the little things on that which aren't right and are obvious to my newbie eyes are like sand in my shorts every time I see those photos. I'm working on a car with a whole lot of flat black sprayed all over everything, lots of undercoating and a whole lot of rust. If I have to clean it all off, cut all of that rot out and weld in all new steel and redo every nut and bolt I prefer to get it right the first time, 'cuz the first time someone says to me, "Hey Mike, you screwed up when you painted this item this color," I won't be able to sleep until I tear whatever it is out and redo it.

              P.S.

              Anyone got a Jan 2003 issue of TW and a scanner?
              Last edited by hausdok; 01-17-2012, 10:49 PM.
              Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
              Kenmore, Washington
              hausdok@msn.com

              '58 Packard Hawk
              '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
              '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
              '69 Pontiac Firebird
              (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hausdok View Post
                Hi Dave, I'm not trying to say anything. I'm not arguing with you; I'm agreeing with you. I know PackardInfo.com is not the club website. I visit the Packard Club website all the time. Their information is not as complete as PackardInfo.com's in my opinion.

                P.S. Anyone got a Jan 2003 issue of TW and a scanner?
                No worries- the way I read it I thought you were saying that site was a club site. It's all good. And that PackardInfo site is THE BEST, is it not? Those guys have tons of info for the learnin'!!!

                I'm sure that I do have that TW, and Dad's got a scanner right here. But as I'm sure you know- the weather is currently making those two miles between here and my shop seem like 200 right now!!! I'm not too sure if I'll even be able to get outta the driveway, let alone to my shop. Sweet Pea and I may take a stab at it today just for kicks. And if not, maybe once things thaw out and 'warm up' I'll be able to get it for you~ if no one else gets it for you first.




                StudeDave '57
                StudeDave '57
                US Navy (retired)

                3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
                SDC Member since 1985

                past President
                Whatcom County Chapter SDC
                San Diego Chapter SDC

                past Vice President
                San Diego Chapter SDC
                North Florida Chapter SDC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks,

                  Stay warm and safe. We didn't get much here last night. Maybe half an inch. It started snowing a little bit about an hour ago but it's mixed with rain and temps are above freezing. It's melting almost as soon as it hits the ground. If it weren't for the fact that a little fell last night I don't think there'd be any accumulation. I guess we'll have to see whether their reports of an approaching "severe" storm pan out.

                  I'm originally from upstate New York. What stops the entire county dead here right now wouldn't have even caused a one hour school start delay where I grew up. I was road weened on snowy roads and I drive a Subaru. Subarus grip the road like they are on rails and they just kind of chuckle when they see snow. A couple of springs ago I was taking a sunday drive on the mountain loop highway after the thaw. About three hundred meters from the end of that un-paved/unplowed 16-mile stretch, I found the road covered with more than a foot of snow. Choice - turn around or go ahead. I just went ahead. She didn't even hesitate and I proceeded onward at about 20 mph. When I was nearly to the end, the road narrowed to about 10ft. wide and passed through a narrow cut flanked by steep sides where there are berms on both sides created by the earth moved there when the paved portion was cut through perpendicular in front. The snow pushed up there was three feet deep. Without hesitating, I just swerved up onto the adjacent slope and went up and around that 3ft. deep section and back down onto the road and came out onto the pavement. The road was lined on both sides with Sunday drivers who'd been stymied by the snow drift and were sitting their picnicking. Lots of suprised looks to see a little truck with street tires come over/around that drift when those other cars were stymied.

                  Still looking for some opinions on these colors. I think it would be great to emulate here what the Packard Club has done re. colors on their site, but I know that will take a whole lot of work, and especially cooperation from the brethren that participate here, to produce that many different pages. If anyone is wondering what I'm talking about, Click Here !!!
                  Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
                  Kenmore, Washington
                  hausdok@msn.com

                  '58 Packard Hawk
                  '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
                  '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
                  '69 Pontiac Firebird
                  (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hausdok View Post
                    Thanks, Stay warm and safe. We didn't get much here last night. Maybe half an inch. It started snowing a little bit about an hour ago but it's mixed with rain and temps are above freezing. It's melting almost as soon as it hits the ground. If it weren't for the fact that a little fell last night I don't think there'd be any accumulation. I guess we'll have to see whether their reports of an approaching "severe" storm pan out.
                    It's much worse then that here. Since Saturday we've had well over a foot of snow. It's hard to tell now though- the steady 15MPH winds (gusting much higher) are blowing it all around!!! And to add to that- it's about 9 degrees out...

                    I am not used to this stuff~ and I never wanna be!!!




                    StudeDave '57
                    a guy who likes it warmer
                    StudeDave '57
                    US Navy (retired)

                    3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
                    SDC Member since 1985

                    past President
                    Whatcom County Chapter SDC
                    San Diego Chapter SDC

                    past Vice President
                    San Diego Chapter SDC
                    North Florida Chapter SDC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by StudeDave57 View Post
                      I'm sure that I do have that TW, and Dad's got a scanner right here. But as I'm sure you know- the weather is currently making those two miles between here and my shop seem like 200 right now!!! I'm not too sure if I'll even be able to get outta the driveway, let alone to my shop. Sweet Pea and I may take a stab at it today just for kicks. And if not, maybe once things thaw out and 'warm up' I'll be able to get it for you~ if no one else gets it for you first.
                      StudeDave '57
                      I managed to get out of the driveway today thanks to Sweet Pea, her Twin Traction, and about 100 pounds of sand!!! Once I got to my shop I found that I do indeed have the Turning Wheels issue in question. I will attempt to scan it tonight.

                      Mike~ Check your PMs for a bit more information on this subject, please. Thanks.




                      StudeDave '57
                      StudeDave '57
                      US Navy (retired)

                      3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
                      SDC Member since 1985

                      past President
                      Whatcom County Chapter SDC
                      San Diego Chapter SDC

                      past Vice President
                      San Diego Chapter SDC
                      North Florida Chapter SDC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is terrible here in so cal now too. 70 and clear at 4 pm, no wind and hardly a single cloud and all of that frost in the mornings at 29*f out....brrr.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi,

                          Since I come from upstate New York, I'm sure the folks from that corner of the land are scratching their heads and saying, What the.....where's all the deep snow these guys're whining about. What they don't know is that snowplows and sanders are scarce as hens teeth out here; so, consequently, the roads don't get plowed. During the big storm in 1996 that paralyzed this area for weeks, Gary Locke bemoaned the fact that there were only 11 snow plows for all of King County. Hell, I come from a town of 1300 people in New York and we had ten snowplows and just as many sand trucks. These guys out here just don't 'get' snow.

                          Add to that a population that has no idea how to drive in snow, doesn't use snow tires or studs, and you've got a pretty hairy mix. I had to drive 18 miles down the interstate today over enough snow covering the interstate that would have had the New York State Police closing the northway. The Subaru just scoffed at it and roared on ahead but every once in a while we had to scoot left or right as some guy who's never driven in snow before decided to slam on his brakes for a little mound of snow with no traffic around him for 50 meters. Aargh! I'd stress less driving down to NYC in the middle of a storm on the Sawmill River Parkway than I did coming home tonight and having to navigate around some of these rubes.

                          Dave, thanks, I'll check my PM.
                          Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
                          Kenmore, Washington
                          hausdok@msn.com

                          '58 Packard Hawk
                          '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
                          '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
                          '69 Pontiac Firebird
                          (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

                          Comment

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