In car piston removal

[Kurt]

I agree, it's never a good idea. I was just referencing what I've seen over a lifetime of country living. Farmers used to do internal engine repairs in the field, right where the tractor quit, disc set still attached, then continue on. Presumably this was possible since tractors don't see high RPMs or daily use. Not recommended, but it has been done.

I was just funnin everyone has cobbled something together at one time or another

[53k]

I agree, it's never a good idea. I was just referencing what I've seen over a lifetime of country living. Farmers used to do internal engine repairs in the field, right where the tractor quit, disc set still attached, then continue on. Presumably this was possible since tractors don't see high RPMs or daily use. Not recommended, but it has been done.

When I was a dumb kid in high school I drove a very tired '47 Dodge convertible every day. One morning, going to school, a piston broke. I walked on to school and called my dad. He came to town, pulled the head and pan alongside the road, went to the FLAPS and had a piston made to fit, got one set of rings, went back to the car and put it together. I drove it home after school. It was still running when I traded it about four years later.

[sbca96]

I drove it home after school. It was still running when I traded it about four years later.

Sounds like pops was MacGyver. I wouldnt be surprised if its still running today.

Tom

[64Avanti]

It can be done but I think it is quicker to pull the engine and do it right!

[hausdok]

I have a 62 hawk with a 259 that runs ok just lots of leaks and blow by, its puffs out the breather. I was under the hawk and started to wonder. If I could drop the oil pan while the engine was in the car. Perhaps I could drop the exhaust it needs repaired any way, some steering linkage, then the oil pan. After removing the intake and heads could I push the pistons out put on new rings, gaskets that 4 barrel ...... and be good to go. How about the rear seaL. I did this with a 6 cylinder jeep years ago worked ok ( it had a 2 piece seal)...

Yeah,

It can be done, but it shouldn't be attempted by anyone who doesn't do it for a living. One slip and you'll screw up the crank and cost yourself dearly.

Back in 1973 when I was a mechanic working for Toyota we had a large recall of 2TC engines to replace oil rings, valve guides and top hats (seals) and install little aluminim oil gallery plugs in the back of the heads. There were so many that needed to be done that we worked out a sequence that enabled us to do them in the car with the car on a lift. It's been nearly fourty years but I still remember that sequence like it was yesterday.

I'd pull the car in, run it up on the lift, drain the coolant and oil while I dropped the exhaust and unbolted the motor mounts, then I'd drop the pan, lower the car, pull the air cleaner bonnet and valve cover, disconnect the throttle linkage, fuel line and vacuum lines, pull the distributor cap, wires and rotor, remove the valve cover nuts, hook a wire through the timing chain so it wouldn't drop, unbolt the top timing gear, remove the rocker arm/head bolts and pop the head off with the intake manifold, carb and header still attached. The car went back up in the air and then I'd slip short pieces of rubber hose over those exposed connecting rod bolts and used a wood dowel that I'd forced inside of a rubber heater hose to tap the pistons up and out of their cylinders. That would all take literally no more than 15 minutes. The car came down, I'd go over to the head on the bench pop the valve springs loose, drive out the guides, knock the seats loose, drive in new guides and new seats (We had special drivers for those), cut two angles on the seats, install new valves, lap 'em, check 'em for proper contact and pattern, install new top hats and the springs and reinstall the plugs. All in less than thirty minutes. Then I'd turn around, use nice clean cotton clothes made from blanket type fender covers to cover the crank journals, rheem off the ridges in one or two passes, pass a hone through the cylinders, wipe 'em clean, install new rings and bearings on the pistons and rods, compress 'em, tap 'em home, install the caps, torgue 'em, button up the bottom (loved those thick spongy cork oil pan gaskets on the Toyotas. Once you learned how to pop em loose you could use 'em over so you didn't have to scrape 'em off that pan rim unless you'd screwed up.) I'd reinstall the nuts and washers on the motor mounts, drop the car, drop the head into place on a new gasket, reinstall the cam, tap the aluminum plug into the oil gallery hole in the rocker arm assembly, install the head bolts/rocker arm assembly, torgue 'em, reinstall the timing gear and chain, torgue 'em, turn the engine over by hand to coldset valve lash, install the valve cover with only 4 nuts, install the wires, rotor and cap, hook up the vacuum hoses, fuel line, throttle linkage, sensor wires, spin on a new oil filter and fill the engine with oil, crank the engine with the coil wire disconnected to get oil pushed up into the valve train and on the crank, raised the car, reconnected the exhaust, dropped the car, added enough coolant to top the radiator, started it and warmed it up, adding fluid to top off the cooling system. Shut it down, removed the valve cover, turned the engine over again by hand and hot set the valve lash, put the valve cover back on, install the air cleaner, check the timing, adjust the air-fuel if necessary, listen for noises, look for leaks - none found, take it out on the interstate and drive it at least ten miles at various speeds to break things in. Come back, put it back on the lift, run it up in the air, look for leaks, drop it, look for leaks, wipe everything down, drive it outside and park it and turn in the shop order and pick up the next one.

Our shop was small - 6 bays plus a wash bay - and during the recall two of us were dedicated to nothing but the recall until it finally petered out. On an average day during the recall we'd each do four. Sometimes five if we could talk the SM into a little bit of overtime. After I'd done a few hundred of those, I was able to do the entire job, including a ten mile test drive in just under two hours. Now, I had the advantage of air tools, lifts, air-driven spring compressors, state-of-the-art valve grinding equipment and lots of spare parts. Plus years of experience. I was working on relatively new cars that were clean (the owners would drop them off the night before and the guys in the wash bay would steam clean everything so we'd start with a spotless engine the next morning). The cars were new enough that we didn't need to plastigauge bearings or check end lash - we just tossed the old bearings and used new standard sized bearings. Yeah, occasionally we'd pull a pan and find a journal or two screwed up 'cuz the owner had run the engine nearly out of oil, but we'd just push the car outside for one of the other guys to pull the engine and rebuild and we'd go and grab another. It was sort of like working on an assembly line.

I got very very good at it; but, like I said above, it's not something for a weekend mechanic to attempt. There are just too many things that can go wrong - especially on an old car. My old man had a saying - "You can only do the best you can with what you've got when you've got it, so make sure you do it right the first time." Unlike those Toyota engines, Stude 289 engines are pretty few in number. They're kind of like spotted owls. Every one that gets screwed up and ends up getting tossed makes it all that harder for everyone else to find parts later on. If you're going to do engine work on one of these, don't half-ass it, do the best you can with the engine you've got and do it right the first time; otherwise you'll end up hating that car one of these days.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[Kurt]

When I was a dumb kid in high school I drove a very tired '47 Dodge convertible every day. One morning, going to school, a piston broke. I walked on to school and called my dad. He came to town, pulled the head and pan alongside the road, went to the FLAPS and had a piston made to fit, got one set of rings, went back to the car and put it together. I drove it home after school. It was still running when I traded it about four years later.

My little brother had a 1984 Buick Regal with the 231 V6 that burned a hole in a piston. Him being young and broke, and me thinking I could fix anything, we dropped the pan, pulled the heads, honed the cylinder, dropped in a new piston and rings, and buttoned her up. It ran a long time after that. My brother ran the heck out of things as a kid, and we cobbled lots of things. This is one that went well. I could tell some stories on some that didn't go so well.

[hausdok]

I agree, it's never a good idea. I was just referencing what I've seen over a lifetime of country living. Farmers used to do internal engine repairs in the field, right where the tractor quit, disc set still attached, then continue on. Presumably this was possible since tractors don't see high RPMs or daily use. Not recommended, but it has been done.

Wow, you just caused me to dredge up an old memory.

Went up to the Lebenon, NY speedway one Saturday to watch the drag races and Big Daddy Don Garlits was racing a slingshot dragster. My friends and I went down in the pits between his runs to get his autograph. He was too busy for autographs.

He had that dragster up on saw horses, had the pan down on the ground and was pulling the main bearing caps off to examine the bearings. We were aghast. He'd pop a cap, look at the bearing, drop the cap on the ground in the dirt and then start poking around with a screwdriver to pop the top half of the bearing out so he could examine it. Then he'd wipe the surfaces off with his gritty fingers slip that top half back up in there, shoot a little oil on the cap, bolt it back in place, torque it and move to the next. At some point, he discovered a bearing had run dry and scored the crank a little bit. He just popped out the top bearing, took some crocus cloth on the end of a fingertip, had one of his pit crew members spin that engine over with a big old 1/2-inch drill while he pressed the crusus cloth to the journal, and then he put it back together with a new bearing - which he got all nasty and gritty in the process - and put the pan back on. There was a crowd of about 30 people standing around in silence watching the guy work and when he dropped those bearings in the dirt you could hear everyone suck in their breath and there were a few under-the-breath, What the F***? He put oil in the engine, fired it up, took it out to the line, made another pass and came back with the engine knocking like there was someone inside with a hammer trying to get out.

Lost all respect for that guy that day. Never followed his career from that point on. He might have been rich and he might have broken records; but he didn't respect his machine and anyone that would do that to a $50,000 motor in 1969 didn't deserve any respect as far as I was concerned.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[irish]

I have a 62 hawk with a 259 that runs ok just lots of leaks and blow by, its puffs out the breather.

Are you sure your Hawk has a 259? All 1962 Hawks that were built for the US Market had 289's

Joe

[JoeHall]

I have a 62 hawk with a 259 that runs ok just lots of leaks and blow by, its puffs out the breather. I was under the hawk and started to wonder. If I could drop the oil pan while the engine was in the car. Perhaps I could drop the exhaust it needs repaired any way, some steering linkage, then the oil pan. After removing the intake and heads could I push the pistons out put on new rings, gaskets that 4 barrel ...... and be good to go. How about the rear seaL. I did this with a 6 cylinder jeep years ago worked ok ( it had a 2 piece seal)...

I too, have a 1962 GT, and the engine does the same things you describe. I know the history of the engine and believe me, it is just tired. I had considered doing repairs with engine still in the car, and have done that before, successfully. It requires: jack-stands or ramps to get all wheels up a foot or so off the ground, laying many hours on a creeper, a GOOD light source, patience, lots of oil & grease drippings in the face, etc. Generally, you can do a good overhaul under those conditions. But it is a bit tricky getting the oil pan gaskets installed correctly, you'll still need to cut the top ring grooves to remove the pistons, the heads should still be done professionally, if the block needs cleaning thats gonna be problematic, etc.

I opted for rebuilding another Stude V8 to drop in instead, but for reasons other than others have cited here. If your resources are limited, you can make do with what you have and do it in the car.

[hausdok]

Here's a thought,

Are you located near any automotive trade schools? If you don't think you have the skills to do the work yourself, and you're looking for a cheap solution, a trade school might be just the ticket. The instructors are normally top mechanics and the kids have state-of-the-art equipment. Finding good projects for a class can be tricky. I attended such a school for my last two years in high school. The first engine I tore down to rebuild in class was the 1600 VW engine from my Meyers Manx VW based dune buggy, the second was a straight six in an all-original 1953 Corvette - one of about 300 produced. The owner wanted to restore the car but he didn't have the cash to have a pro do it, so we got it. He paid for the parts and we lavished a lot of care on that engine in order to return that engine, and the engine compartment, to like new condition. It was a lot of fun - all except those three damned one-barrel Carters. What a pain in the butt to get synched.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com